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Boston MIT Cop Cover-Up

Sean-Collier-Red-Sox-4-20-13All one has to do is consider the eyewitness accounts of the shootout in Watertown to realize that the Tsarnaev brothers were almost certainly not—as a surprisingly large number of people posting comments on this site and around the Internet seem to believe—harmless naïfs who did nothing wrong. Whether or not they planted the bombs at the 2013 Boston Marathon, whether or not they acted alone or in concert with others, whether they were ideologues or dupes, it seems evident that they were involved in some kind of violent adventure culminating in the death of Tamerlan Tsarnaev and the shooting and apprehension of his brother Dzhokhar.

I spent Wednesday of this week talking to residents of the streets where the shootouts took place, and there doesn’t seem to be any doubt that both brothers were there, were armed, and threw bombs at police.

Nonetheless, many aspects of the story remain unclear, and decidedly troublesome. And getting to the bottom of this complex story is not just an option—we cannot afford as a society to have large traumas of this sort come and go without clarity. Otherwise, we are all dupes, of one kind or another.

We’ve raised reasonable questions about the events surrounding the Marathon bombing in previous articles,  from the presence of mysterious black-clad security men with well-stuffed backpacks at the race to the FBI and CIA’s awareness of the Tsarnaev family long before April 15, 2013. (See thisthis and this.)

Now, some might say that nothing else matters as long as police got their men. However, it is often in the details, the “weeds,” if you will, where we find that a narrative can be useful as far as it goes and yet terribly misleading in terms of what it all means. As we’ve noted, many much-loved historical narratives turn out to be little more than carefully crafted myths around a few core facts.

Our media and our leading interpreters of events explain everything in terms that the unsophisticated can easily grasp. Yet in the real world, happenings may take place for a welter of reasons that even those directly involved may not be aware of.

It is with this in mind that we’ve been down in the weeds.

The “Confession”

If there’s one thing out of all the “facts” that emerged in the early hours and days after the bombing that cemented the Tsarnaevs’ capital-G Guilt, it was, unquestionably, the killing of MIT police officer Sean Collier on the night of Thursday, April 18, three days after the explosions at the Marathon.

At the time of Collier’s shooting, the FBI had just released video of two unnamed “persons of interest” walking with backpacks—shown amid many other people walking with backpacks. The still-anonymous Tsarnaevs were nothing more than people with whom the FBI wanted to talk. No hard evidence had been released that connected them to the bombing itself.

Within hours of the FBI video release, everything went nuts. First came word of “officer down” at MIT. Then, quickly, news of a carjacking. Then police swarming everywhere. Then a shootout and the death of one suspect, followed by a lull, and then the discovery and near-death of the second suspect.

Soon came the narrative to explain much, if not all. The suspects in the video had been behind both the bombing and the killing of the police officer. We knew that because the carjacking victim had escaped, and told police and later selected media how his captors had confessed to him.

Boston Globe reporter Eric Moskowitz gained cooperation from the still-unnamed hostage (nicknamed “Danny”). Here’s a portion of Danny’s tale, in which the elder Tsarnaev, Tamerlan, confessed during the carjacking:

He asked if [Danny] had followed the news about Monday’s Boston Marathon bombings

[snip]

“I did that,” said the man, who would later be identified as Tamerlan Tsarnaev. “And I just killed a policeman in Cambridge.”

We’ll have more to say about the carjacking in a subsequent article. But for now, the key thing to remember is that in some ways, the shooting of Officer Collier immediately before the carjacking and the alleged confession in the car—to both crimes—were absolutely essential in creating the first profile of the Tsarnaevs as murder-minded individuals, not just two guys on a video wearing backpacks. 

Collier as Officer Tippit

Besides playing a central role in establishing a case against the brothers, Collier’s death also served a powerful symbolic purpose in the official narrative, with a huge memorial service for the MIT officer on April 24, addressed by Vice President Biden. Throughout, the spotlight has been on Collier as Hero—a kind of ritualistic hagiography devoid of any inclination to investigate the actual circumstances of his death.

For students of history, however, this part of the narrative had a familiar ring. Exactly half a century ago, another traumatic event took place: the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The big break in that case came several hours later, when a police officer, J.D. Tippit, was shot and killed. Soon, one of the many employees in a tall building on Kennedy’s parade route, Lee Harvey Oswald, was connected to both events. Like Tamerlan Tsarnaev, he had recently spent time in Russia. Like Tamerlan Tsarnaev, he had been under scrutiny by the FBI before the crime.

In both cases, it was the killing of a police officer that turbocharged the police pursuit—and that, once the suspect was apprehended, convinced the public quickly that the police had their man.

Until the shooting of officer Collier, the Tsarnaevs were just two guys seen on a video wearing backpacks. And until the Tippit shooting, Oswald was just one of many employees in a building that most eyewitnesses felt was not even the source of the shots that killed Kennedy.

In both cases, the shooting of the police officer did not make a lot of sense in the context of the “main event” – but nevertheless gave the pursuit a jolt of adrenaline. Only later would crucial details of the narrative be changed—at a time when few would notice.

A Myth

In the case of Oswald, serious doubts would emerge as to whether he had killed Officer Tippit.

In the case of Officer Collier, if we look carefully, we can see that the script was rewritten after most people stopped paying attention.

Early reports left the impression that Collier had some kind of active interaction with his killers.

Here’s the Associated Press from that night:

Cambridge police and the Middlesex District Attorney’s office says the officer was responding to a report of a disturbance when he was shot multiple times.

Here’s the MIT News—the publication of the university’s administration—several days later:

On the evening of Thursday, April 18, MIT Police Officer Sean Collier was shot and killed in the line of duty following an altercation at the corner of Vassar Street and Main Street on the MIT campus.

And here’s the Los Angeles Times on April 23, five days after Collier’s death:

WASHINGTON–Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev allegedly shot and killed a Massachusetts Institute of Technology police officer Thursday because they wanted his service revolver, according to two federal government law enforcement officials who have been briefed on the Boston Marathon manhunt.

They came upon Collier outside a gas station and convenience store near the MIT campus in Cambridge. He was apparently shot multiple times, but had left a safety device on his holster that the suspects could not unlock to retrieve the weapon.

It was unclear which brother shot the officer, the officials said. However, authorities have obtained a surveillance photo of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, dressed in a gray hoodie, at the store.

This is a false story, circulated days after the events. Collier was not outside a gas station and convenience store. Dzhokhar certainly appears to have gone into a gas station/convenience store later that evening, but Collier was not there and no murder took place at that time. Collier did not respond to a disturbance. He did not approach anyone. In fact, it’s likely he never even knew who shot him.

To this day, hardly anyone in the general public is aware of this glitch in the narrative. Yet it is very important. Because if the initial story had been, “unknown persons came up behind a police officer sitting quietly in his patrol car and shot him for no apparent reason, not even taking his firearm” – that would no doubt have triggered a very different media response.

Keeping up the Hero Story

It was for some reason very important to someone that the death of this police officer be projected on a massive screen. Consider the content and tone of this, from the Boston Herald:

Thousands of students and law enforcement officers from across the country have packed the Massachusetts Institute of Technology campus to honor fallen MIT Police Officer Sean Collier who was remembered as a joy-filled, caring and compassionate man who believed kindness could change society.

MIT set aside 15,000 seats at Briggs Field and every one was filled, with law enforcement officers making up two-thirds of the heartbroken audience.

Here’s the Atlantic Wire:

MIT held a public memorial service Wednesday afternoon for fallen officer Sean Collier on their Briggs Field, where the 26-year-old university police officer was remembered for his commitment to the school community, his love of country music, and his dedication to his job. Vice President Joe Biden closed the ceremony’s remarks, offering words of condolence to the family from the perspective of someone who had also lost a child—before offering a scathing indictment of the Tsarnaev brothers’ terrorism.

MIT cancelled classes for the service, which brought together members of the MIT community, law enforcement officers, and public officials. A private funeral was held Tuesday. Yesterday, CBS News reported that Collier may have been killed because the Tsarnaev brothers wanted his gun.

Yet, even after it was clear that Collier had done nothing more than sit in his car while someone came up behind him and shot him, the authorities were still feeling it necessary to lay it on thick. On April 25, a week after Collier’s death, the New York Times was reporting

“I [still] consider him a hero,” Boston’s police commissioner, Edward Davis, said in an interview this week. “It was his death that ultimately led to the apprehension. The report of the shot officer led to all those resources being poured in.”

A cop had been shot, “all those resources” were poured into that general vicinity, and a juggernaut had been launched. There was nothing that would reverse it. Indeed, a month after Collier’s death, a Cambridge, MA, brewery announced it was issuing a special “Collier Stout” in his honor.

Why were we more upset over Collier’s death than other deaths of law enforcement personnel? Because it was linked, in the public’s mind, with the assault upon America itself at the Marathon. The killing of Collier, we were told, was an act against us all. “Boston Strong.” “America Strong.” In a sense, when we wore those ribbons, attended those mass ceremonies, we were mourning, yet again, our loss of innocence in the face of a world that seems to be spinning out of control.

Why Was Collier Killed?

Here’s what we were told at the time of that memorial service:

Until now, it is not been clear why the officer – who was laid to rest today at a private funeral service in his hometown of Stoneham, Massachusetts – was shot dead.

The officer was slain execution-style as he sat in his patrol car at the MIT campus in the suburb of Cambridge.

But now, according to CBS News, police believe the officer was ambushed by the Tsarnaev brothers in a botched attempt to take his gun to boost their arsenal of just one real gun and a pellet gun.

We have been told that, perhaps, the brothers wanted his gun.

Yet, they did not take it. The police chief explained that maybe they could not get it out of his holster, because it was found still in the holster. But it is also possible that whoever shot him was not interested in taking his gun.

It is also important to understand that the CBS News coverage—including the dubious claim that Collier was killed in an attempt to get his gun, and the belated story that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev scrawled a confession on the interior walls of a boat while he lay bloody and grievously wounded – is helmed by John Miller, CBS Senior Correspondent, who between journalistic stints served as the top spokesman for the FBI. In other words, it is an FBI insider who is guiding the narrative. Of course, the FBI itself has serious credibility problems, including the fact that it failed to disclose that it knew exactly who the Tsarnaevs were, long before the bombing. (On May 22, an FBI agent shot and killed Ibragim Todashev, another person of Chechen origin connected to the story and the investigation—whom a friend claims had recently warned him that he felt he was in the process of being framed; and who reportedly had, at the time of his death, just confessed.)

As we previously noted, all of these shootings warrant a closer look—including why so many shots were fired at Dzhokhar Tsarnaev as he lay wounded in that boat, firing not a single shot, and given the potential importance of him as a witness.

All of this must be addressed. But for the purposes of this article, let’s stay focused on Officer Collier’s death—and the circumstances surrounding it.

Why Would the Brothers Have Been on the MIT Campus?

Nobody seems to know. Would they have been there because they knew they would find an officer sitting in his car between buildings? If not, it means the brothers randomly passed through this unlikely area and happened upon Collier in his unlikely spot, snuck up behind him, killed him, and then—took nothing.

Why Collier Was Where He Was

Why was Collier even sitting in his police car at that time? According to news accounts, Collier was parked near the intersection of two streets in Cambridge for the purpose of preventing illegal shortcuts through campus. Here’s the Boston Globe’s account:

About 9:30 p.m., Collier was on routine patrol. He was parked by the corner of Vassar and Main streets. It was a spot where motorists would sometimes take a chance, making an illegal shortcut through campus to avoid a red light.

“We ask patrols to sit there,” DiFava explained. It prevents the forbidden cut-throughs and it provides a high-profile presence for the MIT community.

Something crucial is missing from this account. Collier was not parked on the street. He was parked on the pavement, a distance from the corner, between two campus buildings. When I asked students about the scenario Chief DiFava presented, they were baffled. They didn’t recall patrols sitting between those buildings, and it was not apparent how or why anyone would save a minute at a red light by climbing the pavement and driving between buildings.

With crazed terrorist bombers on the loose, why was this officer sitting where he was? I hoped to clear this up with Chief DiFava. Especially since DiFava is not just MIT’s police chief, but also the chief of MIT “facilities operations.” Thus, he had oversight of facilities including the many sensitive research facilities scattered around the campus, some close to where Collier died.

At the campus police station, I was first told that he was…in Guatemala. Why Guatemala? Why go so far away to a foreign country at the very time that everyone most wanted to talk to him? In any case, I was soon informed that he had been in Guatemala, but just returned. But he had left again. Now he was in Washington. Why Washington? Something to do with the case? But again I was told he was back, but out on business off campus.

Then I was told that maybe he was not off campus, but that in any case, he preferred not to talk. I wondered why that would be, when he had already shown a willingness to talk. Then I was told that I needed to go through the MIT central authorities. Was it the chief who did not want to talk, or was he told not to?

I tried to talk to the Emergency Medical Technicians, students who volunteer to handle campus emergencies, and whose colleagues showed up with their ambulance at the scene of the shooting—they declined and I left. And then I got this email from MIT’s Executive Vice President for Communications:

Mr. Baker,

I have heard from a number of people at MIT that you have been on campus today wanting to ask people questions about the week of the marathon.

Your approach—visiting very busy people in person unannounced to ask them about this painful subject—is not productive, and in some cases, it has proved upsetting. I need to ask that you please follow the guidance that my colleague….. gave you over the phone today. You should email her whatever questions you have, and we can go from there.

Can you agree to this, please?

The Video

Significantly, we’ve been assured that the Tsarnaevs were Collier’s killers.

Here’s a report from the afternoon of Friday, April 19, from the Associated Press—probably the major source of information for the nation’s media, essentially stating that the Tsarnaevs committed the shooting:

WATERTOWN, Mass. (AP) — Two suspects in the Boston Marathon bombing — identified to The Associated Press as coming from the Russian region near Chechnya — killed an MIT police officer, injured a transit officer in a firefight and threw explosive devices at police during their getaway attempt in a long night of violence that left one of them dead and another still at large Friday, authorities said.

Nine days later, on April 28, we see this from the Boston Globe’s mega-narrative of the sprawling affair:

Authorities say video from a surveillance camera shows the suspects approaching Collier’s car from the rear as he sat in his cruiser. Collier was shot five times, including twice in the head, officials said.

“The suspects.” In a long article about the Tsarnaevs, it is reasonable to conclude that the Globe means the Tsarnaevs.

It is all much more unclear. On April 25, several days before the Globe published the bit above, the New York Times offered a crucial but underplayed distinction:

While there is video of two men approaching Officer Collier’s car, three law enforcement officials said, it does not clearly show their faces. But investigators now believe the brothers killed the officer to get another gun.

The Times reports that the video does not establish with certainty the identity of Collier’s murderers. Yet the next sentence accepts as a certainty that it was the brothers.

Murkier and Murkier

In a story full of weird twists, here’s another: one of the first responders to the scene at MIT was himself later shot in Watertown. In the early accounts, we were told:

One of the first responders to the scene of the officer’s death was police officer Richard Donohue, who had gone through the police academy at the same time as Officer Collier.

A few hours later, he would be critically wounded in the Watertown shootout with the Tsarnaev brothers.

What are the odds? Of all the law enforcement people who could get shot in Watertown, only Donohue was. Unlike Collier, Donohue was a Boston transit policeman—but the two were good friends.

And then, more….We learned later that Donohue was hit not by the Tsarnaevs, but by “friendly fire.” That is, an early witness on the scene of the mysterious shooting of Officer Collier shortly thereafter became himself the victim of a strange shooting— by fellow law enforcement officers.

Donohue survived and, according to the Boston Globe on May 19, is saying nothing about that night because he … can’t:

Officer Richard “Dic” Donohue of the MBTA Transit Police remembers almost
nothing of the night he was shot during chaotic gunfire on a normally quiet
Watertown street, or of the murder of his close friend, MIT police Officer
Sean Collier, hours before in Cambridge.

An editor at The Globe told me they’d received tremendous grief from police for reporting the fact that Donohue had apparently been shot by fellow officers. This despite the fact that the paper hardly focused on that, initially reporting it in an article where it was almost mentioned in passing. Nonetheless—or perhaps because of the sensitivity, we’ve seen surprisingly little coverage of this angle by the local and national media.

***

I did end up submitting questions to MIT; I received  a short note back that said, in part,

John DiFava is not available to speak with you. But I can give you answers to some of your questions.

John is Director of Facilities Operations and Security and also the Chief of the MIT Police Department.

That was the only answer.  The letter continued:

And regarding your question about the night Officer Collier was killed: I would refer you to the Middlesex DA’s office. As with all homicide investigations in Cambridge, that office is heading up the investigation. Like you, we at MIT seek answers to what happened on that night. Those answers will come once the DA’s office has filed charges.

The Middlesex County DA’s office told me they couldn’t talk because….it’s an “ongoing investigation.”

The truth is, in these kinds of situations, the investigators, AKA the prosecution, has an agenda—to get a conviction—and holds just about all the cards.

We don’t know whether the Tsarnaev brothers did kill Collier, although it would be easy to assume they did. Still, we have trouble coming up with an easy motive or a logical reason for them to have been at that place at that time. We wonder about the lack of candor in this matter. As to whether there is another explanation, the reality is that there may always be others who benefit from chaos and fear.

In any case, if the deaths of people like Sean Collier—or the bombing victims–are truly not to be in vain, it will be because open-minded people work to get to the bottom of things, not because those with an agenda exploit their deaths—or  countenance a possible cover-up of the facts of the case. A clear investigative role exists outside of law enforcement. We’ll do what we can, and we welcome informed tips and insights.

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  • Jim in LA

    Hi Russ,
    I would love to see you look into the Dorner case out here in L.A.. There are many things about that case that bother me to this day, including reports that his wallet and badge were found in two separate locations around San Diego. I also have yet to see any evidence put forth from the press to prove that he killed the officer as reported, as well as suspect confessions to the killings of the couple that started the whole manhunt, but no obvious evidence.
    Keep up the good work!

    • payne100

      Speaking of evidence, Russ is saying the brothers were involved in serious crimes without providing evidence that can be accessed. Who were the eyewitnesses interviewed. The link in that section labeled “accounts” is a link to an ad.

      One of the swat team members at the scene of the mysterious boat barrage has said that Dzhokhar’s neck injury looks like a knife wound. Possible vocal cord surgery performed by the FBI on the scene? There is that photo of an FBI associate kneeling over Dzhokhar at the scene with his hands on Dzhokhar’s neck area.

      http://12160.info/video/boston-swat-team-describes-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-throat-wound-as-a-kn

      • payne100

        The eyewitness “accounts” link has now been removed. What did the eyewitnesses have to say?
        Did they explain how Dzhokhar was able to escape
        from all those police with weapons when he most likely had none? Are you sure the eyewitnesses weren’t planted in the area?

  • gogetem1

    Great article, Russ.
    I just recently learned yesterday that Tamerlan was a suspect in the triple murder case as well as the other Chechen man in Florida that was shot by an FBI agent after he made a confession to those murders. So it does seem that these Chechen men are certainly no upstanding citizen types. Could it be that the brothers were “flipped” by an unknown US agency to become useful dupes for another agenda?
    Also, remember that John Miller was one of the few men to interview Osama bin Laden back in 1998. Small world, isn’t it?

    • # Whoopsiedoo

      I agree, excellent reporting. Gog, couple of points you might find interesting. In the Orlando slaying of Todashev, I learn from the Guardian that Todashev was being questioned in his home after midnight by an FBI agent, two Massachusetts state police officers and ‘other law enforcement officials’ and was about to sign a ‘confession’. Beggars belief doesn’t it.

    • bostonboomer

      Are you aware of any actual evidence that either Tamerlan or Todashev committed those murders in Waltham? How do you know that Todashev confessed? He’s dead and the FBI doesn’t tape their interrogations.

      • gogetem1

        Honestly, I’m not aware of any evidence; just what I’ve read in Mainstream sources.

        • bostonboomer

          I find it troubling that news organization are reporting as fact that Tsarnaev and Todashev did the triple murder in 2011. Todashev’s wife says he wasn’t even in the Boston area in Sept. 2011. They may well have done it, but we have no evidence so far, just speculation.

        • Jack1234

          I saw an article today that stated Tamerlan Tsarnaev told Brendan Mess he was being watched by FBI several weeks before the murder in 2011. I have doubts that Tamerlan would have committed these murders if he knew he was being watched. But I do wonder if he was employed by the FBI when Brendan Mess was murdered, and an FBI agent told Tamerlan to stay away from the whole ordeal. They may have said we don’t want you associated with this. That would explain why Tamerlan didn’t go to the funeral. This may have been part of the operation to a future setup imo.

          http://www.telegram.com/article/20130525/NEWS/130529757/0/COLUMN24&TEMPLATE=MOBILE

  • http://www.facebook.com/gary.welsh.906 Gary Welsh

    Russ, There’s more murkiness and confusion than what you’ve detailed here. The FBI charging affidavit contained a factual error insofar as the location of where the carjacking supposedly took place. The affidavit claims the carjacking occurred in Cambridge, but it actually occurred across the river in Boston according to the victim’s account, who seem to give varying accounts of what happened the more he talked. That’s critical since it was claimed the Tsarnaev brothers conducted the carjacking nearby the location of where Collier was shot and killed and only moments later. They would have had to have headed in the opposite direction (east) and then backtracked to show up on the surveillance cameras at the convenience store and the ATM machine much further west of Cambridge. Additionally, the time line in the affidavit is off about 90 minutes. The surveillance images of the Tsarnaevs the night of the Watertown shootout contain a bit of an anomaly. The images captured at the convenience store showed Tamerlan wearing a hat that is identical in color and style to the one worn by bin Laden in the fake video the CIA put out a couple of years after 9/11; Dzhokhar has his hoody pulled up. The ATM surveillance camera shows Dzhokhar wearing the hat Tamerlan was shown wearing at the convenience store and his hoody left down.

    http://advanceindiana.blogspot.com/2013/04/fbi-charging-affidavit-against-tsarnaev.html
    If you can get the live footage shown on the local TV station in Boston that night, I would highly encourage you to review it. I watched it streamed live over the Internet that night. What I saw unfold live was quite different than what was reported later. I would swear that the scene shown live looked more like a set up for filming an action scene in a movie than a real live event unfolding. Most of the cops were acting very relaxed and it was very confusing to follow. The cameraman got separated (his name was Neil Armstrong, I kid you not) from the on-the-scene reporter. When he the cameraman came back, he provided the footage showing the man laying face down in the street. This supposedly happened right as the shootout ended. Yet the cameraman was allowed to walk alongside the police as they approached the suspect we were told had been engaged in the shootout with police. Later, we see a suspect stripped naked being escorted to a police car in handcuff who looked exactly like Tamerlan. I’m convinced that entire shootout in Watertown was staged. It was not real. You should also ask why the first police officer to engage the brothers after Collier’s shooting and after the carjacking victim had been released and alerted the authorities of their whereabouts and the vehicle they were driving was a transit district police officer. A transit cop who just happened to be best friends with Collier, a campus cop. In other words, two wannabe cops, were the first to encounter these two men who were supposedly heavily armed. Only one handgun was retrieved at the scene of the Watertown shooting. Further, there were no bombs that were set off in Watertown, Russ. It never happened. Maybe some firecrackers went off, but there were no bombs exploded. Period.

    • olball coach

      Nice summary. To clarify one thing, however, Based on scanner reporting that night – it was within a minute after the carjacking was reported that dispatch was already tracing the “lo-jack” pings from the Mercedes – He cleared announced the Mercedes was located at 81 Dexter (which is 3 or 4 blocks up from Laurel) immediately following – officer “16” requests officer “19” if he can go after the car – “19” responds by asking for clarification – “16” explains he use to work in the area and knows it well – “19” affirms. Another officer asks “16” if he needs a ride (weird question) and “16” responds he is already in route. “19” then reminds dispatch to tell everyone responding to be advised the suspects are armed. Then the BOLO is issued for 2 middle eastern men, 5’7″ slender, one dark, the other with facial hair (no hat is mentioned) driving the Mercedes, license # “wanted in connection with MIT shooting” heading for Manhatten. That is repeated again. Moments later all hell breaks loose.

    • Jack1234

      I thought it was interesting that the carjacking victim was a foreigner. I immediately thought to myself…of course the script used someone they could control…threats and such since he wasn’t a citizen. They could pay him or scare him into saying any version of a story. I also can’t get over the fact that “Danny” has stated he sat in the drivers seat with car keys and a cell phone while the 2 brothers loaded items into the back of the vehicle. Why wouldn’t he just speed away? My question may seem like a non-issue to some but it certainly seems like a better get-away than sitting next to the carjacker and having to unclip a seatbelt, opening a door, and running across the street. BUT of course that scenario works better since it allowed the story to portray them using the ATM and discussing their New York plot in all that time before his “dramatic” escape.

  • BrettMeyers

    This is my first time on the site. Excellent work.

  • http://www.facebook.com/williambrandonshanley William Brandon Shanley

    Bravo! Keep going…

  • whatdoesitmean

    The strangeness of this case continues to mount. Donohue, doubly unlucky, twice Johnny-On-The-Spot. Two elite FBI Hostage Rescue Team members involved in the shootout with the Marathon suspects apparently fallen to their deaths from a helicopter in a training exercise. The unraveling circumstances surrounding the (shocking) death in Florida of the Other Chechen. The CIA ties of the Tsaranaev’s Uncle Ruslan. The FBI’s prior monitoring of the brothers hidden from the public. The evidence-free assertions by revolving-door CBS reporter and FBI spokesman Miller. The carefully imprecise reporting of the MSM tendentiously implicating the Tsaranaevs in the slaying of Collier. The unwarranted reticence of Officialdom. Tweets and reports of Drills the day of the bombing. The unexplained presence and behavior of the Craftsmen.

    One sour note after another. Is that a Mighty Wurlitzer playing?

    • Ferb71

      Just wanted to know where you saw that the two FBI Hostage Rescue Team members that fell to their deaths in a training exercise were involved in the shootout with the Marathon suspects? I read a few articles about their accident that made no mention of any involvement with Boston Bombing incident.

      • whatdoesitmean

        Ferb71, you are correct, the FBI HRT was not involved in the shootout, they were involved in the arrest of the younger Tsaranaev hiding in the boat. Nor does the article explicitly say which members of the HRT were on the ground in Boston making the arrest, so it is only my assumption the two agents who died were on the scene when the apprehension went down.

        12th paragraph:

        hamptonroads.com/2013/05/fbi-agents-died-fall-helicopter-va-coast

        • Ferb71

          whatdoesitmean, Thanks, this a very interesting connection!

        • whatdoesitmean

          Nonetheless, while the HRT was not involved in the earlier shootout, they were involved in the subsequent “shoot-at” at the younger brother holed up in the boat who at some point decided it would be a good idea to scribble out his confession either prior to or after being greivously wounded. A fair question: Does the HRT always act as a team–would the fallen agents have been in Boston as a matter of course or is the team regularly divided up and given separate assignments?

        • Anya

          He scribbled out a confession (in a style quite unlike his Twitter feed) with a pen that happened to be on hand, while cramped in a boat under a tarp. What was the lighting like under the tarp? Did he have a flashlight? He was probably already wounded, since some of his wounds were attributed to shrapnel, though he may have received additional wounds in the attack on the boat.

        • Dianne Foster

          He used the word “retribution” once and “collateral” in two different sentences. In a dark boat, wounded. Now we see through a glass, darkly.

  • liteworkr

    So you empty a gun to get a gun and draw a bunch of attention to yourself?
    I am sure 2 hardcore terrorist would know where to get a gun without going thru all that.

    • Eric

      And indeed, they already possessed a very powerful semiautomatic weapon which they unloaded on the streets of Watertown!

  • guest

    I think it’s important not only to unearth facts but also to try to identify the most probable alternative scenario they point toward. Maybe I’m misreading Russ’s piece, but it seems to me the most probable alternative scenario is this: Collier was killed, not by the brothers, but by the very same people at the FBI and law enforcement who had such an urgent interest in pinning the bombing on the brothers. Donohue was shot because he witnessed something at the scene of Collier’s murder that pointed toward FBI/law enforcement as the killers.
    Can we prove this alternative scenario? Certainly not conclusively. But we mustn’t forget that we’re dealing in probabilities either way, and that there are low and high probability scenarios.
    All the evidence suggests that for the first several days after the bombings, the brothers were calm and went about their everyday business. Yes, they could have behaved this way because they are (or were) psycopaths. But an alternative explanation that makes more sense is that they behaved normally because they had not been responsible for the bombings and did not think they were in any trouble. At some point that week they learn that they are to be blamed for the bombing. Maybe they learned it when they turned on their T.V. and saw their pictures being broadcast by the FBI. Or maybe (as the mother asserts) the FBI called up Tamerlan and said, “We know you did it!” Either way, the brothers learn that they are to be blamed and so they run for it, only to be caught by a fairly vicious manhunt triggered by an improbable/weird police officer murder.

    • Jack1234

      One line in an article stated that MIT Ofc. Sean Collier volunteered at the same gym Tamerlan Tsarnaev used to box at. The owner said it was doubtful they ever crossed paths…but no one has confirmed they didn’t know each other. I keep going back to that statement. If Tamerlan was setup, maybe, just maybe he called someone he thought he could trust (Collier) to help him and in turn Collier was shot (by ??) because he heard the truth. A small but important detail that has never been addressed by anyone yet keeps me wondering.

      http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boston-bombers-kill-mit-officer-article-1.1321727

    • Dianne Foster

      Collier and Donohue knew each other because they both trained together at the MBTA (Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority) academy. I don’t know why Donohue was involved with the showdown with the Tsarnaev’s in Watertown, but Collier was shot as an MIT cop. I don’t think it was ever alleged that Donohue was employed by MIT. Perhaps he found out about Collier’s being taken to Mass General Hospital – there were several Collier siblings there to check up on their brother according to reports – so he might have pursued matters after getting the word about his friend. But I just don’t think we know enough to say that. What could he have known about a connection between the Tsarnaev’s and the shooting at MIT? When could he have known it? Were there other MBTA police on the scene in Watertown? But even though it is plausible he was steamed about what he thought was a set-up, how could he have known at that point that the Tsarnaev’s were set up for the bombing, and therefore the shooting? It’s confusing, unless you just view the whole thing as a fabrication, except perhaps two MBTA-trained guys having been shot, one fatally.

      • olball coach

        When the carjacking was first reported – dispatch received the code-jack system in the Mercedes and immediately had pings coming back from 81 Dexter Ave. and reported this on air. Officer “16x” whoever that is – responded by requesting from officer “19” to go after the car (at this time it was a simply carjacking). He informed “19” that he had worked in Watertown before and was familiar with the area. “19” affirmed and sent two others. It was maybe 2-3 minutes later “16x” reports visual – dispatch advises him to move in – and then all hell breaks out.

    • onetree

      My thoughts exactly! This makes a whole lot more sense than the official stories.

  • jim

    Great work…true investigative reporting, the way it should be. Some facts: Did you know there are only 200 Chechen immigrants in the US? That is a TINY amount , and within that tiny amount you have 3( two brothers and 1 in Florida) people who are tied to terrorist acts. You also have the Uncle of the bombers, Uncle Ruslan, who is related to Graham Fuller, a top CIA official for over 30 years. So out of the 200, 4 Chechens are linked to a terrorist act/connections to the CIA. I’m curious if Ibragim Todashev visited Chechnya with the older brother, maybe attended the same workshops with the JamesTown Foundation in Daegestan? Were they CIA recruits?

    • Eric

      Interesting. Do you have supporting evidence for the 200 number?

    • Jack1234

      I saw an article today that stated Tamerlan Tsarnaev told Brendan Mess he was being watched by FBI several weeks before the murder in 2011. I have doubts that Tamerlan would have committed these murders if he knew he was being watched. But I do wonder if he was employed by the FBI when Brendan Mess was murdered, and FBI agent told Tamerlan to stay away from the whole ordeal. They may have said we don’t want you associated with this. That would explain why Tamerlan didn’t go to the funeral. This may have been part of the operation to a future setup imo.

      http://www.telegram.com/article/20130525/NEWS/130529757/0/COLUMN24&TEMPLATE=MOBILE

      • olball coach

        Among the many whacked out things said by Alex Jones – occassionaly he hits on one that might have legs. In connection to the Mess killing, Jones speculates either Russian Mafia, (because they are heavily into drug running etc) or the FBI. His theory is that both would have a motive to do this because they eliminate competition (Russian Mafia) or bad guys (FBI) and both could easily convince Tamerlan (not the brightest bulb) they have manufactured evidence to implicate him and thereby have leverage to blackmail him into working for either. He left for Russia shortly thereafter – after he was already on everybody’s radar – So – I dont buy the “he slipped through the cracks” story at all.
        Just two cents -

        • onetree

          Where did you get the idea that Tamerlan was not “the brightest bulb”? It’s my understanding he wanted to be an engineer and was thought of by some, including Uncle Ruslan (if you can believe anything he says), as very smart.

  • Jimmy cracks capricorns

    Please keep asking the tough questions. I smells rats all over this event – from the hired goon mercenaries to the FBI knowing about these guys before and somehow they are not on a no fly list, to the Officer Collier murder, and the 500 rounds of ammo shot at two persons who hardly had any way to return fire. The explosive devices were almost certainly firecrackers (m-80 types)…..

  • erich

    Great work, Russ. I also had eery thoughts of Officer Tippit immediately upon hearing the breaking news of a slain MIT police officer. That was my first thought (another Tippit?). I agree that it had the (un?)intended consequence of turbo-charging the convictions of both Oswald and the Tsarnaev brothers.

  • Kevin

    I second what Erich said. Great work, Russ!

    Also, I want to mention to the other readers on here that Russ has held up his end of the bargain by writing this outstanding article. Now it’s now our job to publicize it to social media sites. That is, if we truly want to effect change.

    • Eric

      I shared it hours ago. Unfortunately, I don’t think most people can handle the cognitive dissonance for more than a few seconds. “What the hell, this guy’s trying to make me think. Back to CNN. Oh look, tornadoes!”

  • Ralph Hornsby

    Police scanner had Colliers killer as a

    120 lb. 5’5 Black Male then as a Hispanic male wearing cowboy hat. http://www.dailypaul.com/284875/video-boston-police-radio-mit-cop-shooter-described-as-a-120-lb-5-5-black-male

    • olball coach

      There was 2 eyewitnesses seeing this guy at 15 Vasser and a Marriot employee (down the street from the shooting on Main) who id’d him as well.

    • olball coach

      In addition, the officers arriving on scene of the MIT shooting reported there were two surveillance cameras overlooking the site. The initial BOLO issued for the shooter was based on the eye witnesses and the surveillance cameras.

  • zeke

    Excellent article!

  • DB
    • lofty1

      My guess is that it is one of the FBI’s “Nightstalkers” :

      http://www.progressive.org/mag_mcfbisurv

      Where are the listening devices planted is the question and who is being surveilled and why?

    • gogetem1

      That is some kind of crazy.

  • sfulmer

    What did the bomb scare at the federal courthouse have to do with the Rosebud moment?

    http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/17/federal-courthouse-evacuated-after-bomb-threat/

    Also, simple question: “Dzhokhar, what happened to you in the boat?”

  • faustinaagatha

    Thank you for giving us this time line of the press releases about particular incident occurring in the context of a national event. It shows us how the official announcements change with time, I also appreciate that you are not jumping in and presuming to supply your own theory as “the truth”. Keep up the good work.

  • JG

    This is the first time I’ve been to this site, and based on this article I’d guess it is a very clever counter intel operation designed to instill doubt in the doubters. The major clues, unquestioned faith in anonymous sources and illogical behavior. A bad script is still a bad script, no matter how many treatments you give it.

    • Eric

      Being the first time you’ve been here, you clearly know nothing. Go read Family of Secrets by Russ Baker and get back to us.

  • JG

    Well now I’m confused, the last of the article is much more credible than the opening. Perhaps my initial judgement was hasty based on a writing style.

    • Ignatius P. Reilly

      The lesson here, commenters, is rather simple: Dont comment on an article until you have read it in its entirety–and carefully. Be respectful of writers, and of your fellow readers.

  • olball coach

    I am going to presume you (Russ) are sitting on the Scanner chatter until you can get a real person to interview – because its clear the brothers didnt shoot the MIT officer – the carjacking location is incorrect and as pointed out below – they were driving around in circles that night in and around Watertown for some reason. Have you been able to determine why the BOLO issued after the carjacker “got away” was for 2 middle eastern men” 5’7″,slender, one dark, one lighter skinned with facial hair? Based on those descriptions, Tamerlan was not at the gas station.

  • polfilmblog

    Don’t forget to look into BRIAN GLYN WILLIAMS: “I hope I didn’t contribute to it.” CIA/Jamestown Foundation.

    http://wp.me/pwAWe-1Ts

  • Casandra

    Are the Boston Bombings and the Dagestan/Chechnya connection of the suspects, the recent expulsion of 2 US “diplomats” from Russia -one highly involved in the aging US anti-corruption crusade in Russia and the Maginsky affair related?

  • bostonboomer

    I don’t find it that surprising that the Tsarnaev brothers were at MIT, since they lived fairly near there, on Norfolk Street.

    What I do find a little odd is that initial reports suggested that the carjacking took place at MIT, when in fact it happened in Allston, which is in Boston and not all that close to the Kendall Square/MIT area. Why did the brothers drive from MIT (if they were at MIT) into Allston if they intended to go to Watertown?

    After they highjacked the SUV, they apparently drove back to Cambridge and down Memorial Drive where they stopped at the Shell Station for gas. If they were at MIT, why didn’t they just get onto Memorial Drive from there?

    Maybe they were just driving around randomly, but they did go to places that were familiar to them. Tamerlan had trained at a gym in Allston, and they knew people in Watertown.

    Anyway, I appreciate this interesting piece.

    • olball coach

      According to scanner recordings that night – the carjacking is reported to have occured at 1001 Cambridge at Richey’s Shell. According to the carjacking victim they went back to Watertown at least twice. Once to ditch the Green Honda and once to retrieve CD’s from the Honda. The carjacking victim remembers the street sign “Fairfield”. The drove to a Bank of America ATM in Waltham to pull money from the carjacking victims account – the surveillance photo is time stamped as 11:14. They doubled back to the Shell Station on Memorial for gas and lost the carjacking victim – and proceeded back to Watertown – lo-jack picked them up at 81 Dexter. And from there is where all hell breaks loose.

      • bostonboomer

        I don’t know where you are getting your information. Much of what was reported early on turned out to be incorrect–including the Cambridge police report. This is the first time I’ve seen anyone claim the route included Cambridge St, which is in the opposite direction from the route the suspects took.

        According to the carjacking victim “Danny,” interviewed for the Boston Globe, the highjacking took place on Brighton Ave. in Allston. Link:

        http://tinyurl.com/bmltkcs

        They then turned right on Fordham Rd. and then right again on Commonwealth Ave.

        Map:

        http://tinyurl.com/qdddsgj

        As you can see, the Shell station is on the corner of Memorial Dr. and River St. There is a Mobile station on the other side of River St., where “Danny” called 911.

        Here’s another Boston Globe article that describes the route they took that night and explains that many of the places the went to were quite familiar to the alleged bombers, especially Tamerlan.

        http://tinyurl.com/cwbcywr

        • olball coach

          I transcribed the scanner chatter of Boston, MIT and Cambridge PD’s the night of the shootout from 10 mins before the MIT officer was shot to about 2:30 am or so – when the PD’s switched to an encrypted channel. It is crystal clear – the brothers did not shoot the MIT officer, the carjacking is reported at 1001 Cambridge at “Richey’s Shell and more. Its tedious, but if you listen to it all – it is mistakable that the “official” narrative does not follow the scanner reporting from the field – and it is clear LE encountered much more than we are being led to believe. Here is the best recording of that evening I could find (there more – but you have to hunt around for them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUPjux23P5E&list=PLSf5S1DvDTwg2p8_RLVK6Ipma9TaJZZCH
          this begins at 10:20pm and goes all night – but it gets pretty bureacratic after 3:00 am -

        • bostonboomer

          Thanks, but I listened to it that night. In the heat of the moment events often get reported incorrectly. But it sounds like you have your mind made up and aren’t even convinced by the report from the man whose car was highjacked.

          Best wishes.

        • olball coach

          His story doesnt match the scanner feeds. The BOLO issued minutes after officer “19” took his statement and the Shell clerks statement (at Memorial and River) are for 2 middle eastern men 5’7″, slender, one dark, the second lighter with facial hair. Nothing about the White Hat that shows up in the surveillance photos(?) And that description matches JT, but does not come near Tamerlan – who was 6’4″ and 220. The timeline from the carjacking to – letting the carjacker seems a bit out of whack considering how much driving back and forth across town they did – the ATM surveillance photo is time stamped for 11:14 and seems way to early in his story for them to be making a cash run. They had to ditch the Honda in Watertown and retrieve “baggage.” Drive around some more – go back to the Honda to get tapes. Fail at 2 ATM attempts before they score and then go get it gas? The news of the carjacking broke on the scanners at around 12:35 am. That’s 80 minutes – Danny says he was in the car for 90? I have listened and transcribed from three PD’s reporting that night – all three are pretty much in agreement – Fog of War theory applies only to the shoot out – and yet all three PD’s I listened to – agree on the shoot out as well.

        • public_servant_watch

          “The ATM surveillance photo is time stamped for 11:14″ ?? You have a photo with a time stamp? A still shot taken from video surveillance with a time stamp I have never seen –Can you post this please–I want to add it to my collection of the bizarre! Thanks bunches!!

        • public_servant_watch

          The man who was “high jacked” is a significant part of “As The Tale Turns”. You may have noted you have never seen or heard “Danny’s” actual voice. “Danny” in my opinion is an FBI stooge who they can manipulate with threats of charges. In my opinion the car jacking never happened!! Meet IMO “Danny” http://plogspot101.blogspot.tw/2013/04/the-rich-kid-26-from-china-whose-last.html

        • bostonboomer

          So you’re saying “Danny” is actually a female who attends Harvard, not Northeastern?

        • bostonboomer

          The person you referenced has just one child, a daughter.

        • public_servant_watch

          How you got female and Harvard out of what was presented in the link is beyond me!!

        • bostonboomer

          I googled the person identified as the father of “Danny” at your link.

        • public_servant_watch

          I see the word father twice and the word dad once in the piece –I see no reference to a name associated with the word father or dad. Did I miss something? Please copy and paste here what I missed so I can understand your research results. Thank you!

        • bostonboomer

          Sorry, I assumed you would have done the same search I did. The blog post you linked to identifies “Danny” as “Li Keqiang” and suggests he paid for his new SUV with “his VIP father’s dirty communist money.” Li Keqiang is the name of the premier of China. He doesn’t have a son. He has one daughter who is currently studying in the US–rumored to be at Harvard.

          Maybe Li Keqiang is a common name among Chinese VIPs? If you know of another rich communist VIP with that name, please just say so.

        • olball coach

          oops!

        • olball coach

          again, I stay away from too much speculation – however – the carjacking narrative certainly has enough inconsistencies to merit closer scrutiny – the carjacking narrative is the pivot point in the “official narrative” from where LE has enough evidence (albeit hearsay at this point) to connect the brothers to a “a confession to the bombing, the MIT shooting, a getaway car – and sets in motion the search for the Mercedes and their eventual capture. For such a critical turn in the investigation to be based on so many inconsistencies does lend itself to questions.

        • Eric

          I listened to the scanner the entirety of that night too. Everything was chaos and confusion… We can’t be surprised that a few details don’t line up.

        • olball coach

          I am inclined to believe that we can apply the “fog of war” theory to the shoot out. But everything from 10:20 pm until 12:50 am when the shoot out began – was simple, and bureacratic, officers doing their job – following up the 7-11 robbery, searching for evidence at MIT, reporting the carjacking – tracing the pings of the lo-jack – simple straight forward.
          Further, the three PD’s scanner feeds I transcribed from that night are pretty much in agreement. There was one disagreement over when to release the surveillance photos – between Boston and MIT – but everything else was consistent with each others feeds.
          I don’t understand why the “official narrative” differs so much from the real time field reports – but I figure they have their reasons.

        • Dianne Foster

          Don’t you think that just as there are smoke bombs of bombing there can be fog machines of war? You know, like the British psy-op of the “the man who never was”?

          I recall seeing the police and cameramen holding their respective pieces on a kid on the ground with long brown hair in a hat. He was near a stone fence-wall lying on the sidewalk of a side street, much like a more distant view seen in another film. To my eye, he could not have been the suspect, as he had a heavy build like Tamerlyn’s, but he was not the same in coloration or age – looked younger. You could never see his face. It looked like a case of mistaken identity. Actually, there are cars passing the whole time. The area isn’t really secured. Later, I heard they bused residents out. But how many and where to I don’t know. My brother, who had checked into a Harvard Square hotel that night, although asked to stay inside, went out in his car the next day and toured the area without difficulty – although it was very quiet and residents had opted to stay inside as businesses were closed. He had come on business, from the West Coast, and it wasn’t possible to get anything done so he got on the next plane and left the area.

        • olball coach

          I dont recall a “cap” but the kid your referring to was detained and later released. He was located at Upland and Mt Auburn – because just above that stone wall you referred is a the funeral home sign Bedrosians or something like that sits on that corner.

        • Dianne Foster

          Thanks.

  • public_servant_watch

    Some general clarity comes from Sibel Edmonds->Boston Bombing: The US roots of “Chechen” terrorist https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2RCN1w5J80E In my opinion we have been watching FBI Follies, and episode after episode of “As the Tale Turns”. It all started with a lie called False Flag Gone Crazy. If there were not actual deaths and lives ruined this bull crap could be considered entertainment; however, at this point, I consider it treason from the top down! What happened with Officer Collier will most likely never be known; in my opinion, only the FBI knows the answer. The police scanner cannot be considered an accurate source regarding the turn of events; the one piece of this puzzle that has unquestionable clarity is that tax paid officials have been provided a script in order to present a lie to the American people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWxLD01oWHM

    • olball coach

      Which police scanner is not accurate, and more importantly WHY? There were several PD’s broadcasting that night – Boston, MIT, Cambridge, Essex and more – all responded – all had their share of domestic calls, fires, robberies etc., interspersed with the calls specific to the MIT shooting, the carjacking and then the shootout. Why would YOU question scanner chatter not be accurate. It is the only real time record – and it is because of that record that so much of the “official” narrative following the shootout has been revised and then revised again. Recently, LE was unnerved enough about questions regarding the scanners, that it was complelled to disavow its own scanner reporting regarding the stolen “State Black SUV” saying they didnt know how their system was hacked, and fake broadcasts were sent out. WTF? The three PD’s I have listened to, all reported that – how did someone hack all three systems?

      • public_servant_watch

        Your question is answered in my comment. I believe we are dealing with a planned script!! All who would be needed to ensure the script was believable would have been instructed in what part they had to carry!! It’s called intrinsic corruption at every level of government and public service. It is the reason why those who are stuck in denial must WAKE UP! We need those who want our country back to join forces and not bicker among themselves. A sprinkle of truth here and there to carry a conspiracy means nothing.

        • olball coach

          I try not to speculate as much. I have read, I have listened, I have transcribed – As best I can – I let what I have found dictate the narrative. That the evidence found thus far points to diverging narratives is now a reasonable determination, OR utter incompetence, depraved ass covering and a pile of coincidences that stink to high heaven. What evidence is lacking is a motive for telling tales, and multiple revising of the “official narrative”. There is certainly plenty of circumstantial evidence to make any number of guesses, but nothing thus far that ties it all together. Keep on plugging.

        • Dianne Foster

          I agree that it is intrinsic corruption at every level, including those unwilling to examine the underlying facts of the matter who mindlessly repeat what they are told, and who become very indignant with those questioning such a big lie. The bigger the lie, the more in-your-face, the more it is accepted because to do otherwise implies something truly sinister and scary, potentially life-threatening.

          On one level, you might want to ask that had this simply been a Marathon drill without the shoot-out (and without the shut-down of six nearby towns and Boston), how would it have been useful? I imagine the imposition of restrictions on travel and business on Friday 4/19, making a second three-day week-end could be argued as a drill as well. But the legal ramifications, the “solution” of a two year old triple murder case – this bleeds into other areas of government than first responder training and civil defense drill of “shelter in place.” It moves into the press rights and propaganda. It bleeds red stage blood over the whole Constitution, and asserts a power which trumps it in times of government created emergency.

          These are the times that try men’s souls.

  • JakeLee

    Seems these false flag attacks are very similar to the attacks that lead up to the patriot act. This time there will be a gun law that will be taken more seriously by gov representatives just like when anthrax was sent to representatives, this time I fear they will have to kill some representatives in a gun violence false attack to pass these laws (courteous cia/black-ops of course).

  • GeoH

    You ever get the feeling the FBI/CIA/DIA/NSA theme song is a variation on “Something to Talk About” ?

    People are talkin, talking ’bout people

    I hear them whisper, you won’t believe it

    They fear terrorists kept under cover

    Try to ignore it, but they keep playing

    Stories of ogres and terrorists
    Worries of Islamic Jihadists
    We stare at FOX a little too long

    I think they’re seeing, something we don’t, Darlin’

    chorus

    Let’s give them something to talk about

    Let’s give them something to talk about

    Let’s give them something to talk about

    How about hate?

    verse 2

    They feel so foolish, they never noticed
    They act so nervous, could they be afraid of us?

    It took a rumor to make them wonder

    Now they’re convinced they’re going under

    Thinking ’bout death every day

    And fearing us every night

    Hoping that they won’t notice us
    Hell, now they know it, let’s really show it, Darlin’

    chorus

    bridge

    Let’s give them something to talk about

    A little mystery to figure out

    Let’s give them something to talk about

    How about fear, and loathing?

    chorus

    Let’s give them something to talk about

    Let’s give them something to talk about

    Let’s give them something to talk about

    How about fear, and loathing?

  • Anya

    The weeds are important. Including the weed and maybe other substances that DT appears to have been dealing. Has anyone tried to follow the drugs?

    • olball coach

      I have seen nothing about dealing – only what everyone else has seen – they were recreational users. B Mess, the friend of TT was the dealer.

      • Anya

        http://news.yahoo.com/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-college-weed-dealer-151737944.html Just a small time dealer, but small time illegalities make people vulnerable to threats and manipulation by law enforcement officials.

        • olball coach

          Okay – a little better. But still in a court of law it would be considered hearsay. However, having said that – it still leaves open the possibility. What we know is: that “a known” and “long time” weed dealer like Brendon Mess was murdered in a specific drug culture way – and was a “best friends” with Tamerlan. I just read where Mess’s girl friend at the time said that he (Mess) was beat up pretty bad by his dealer for not making payments on time – and that he bought a gun and took lessons on handling a handgun.
          Russian fighters, like Tamerlan (not the brightest bulb) are “muscle” for Russian Mafia. It is speculated on blogs like the one you posted above – that Russian Mafia and the FBI would have motive to knock off a dealer like Mess because they eliminate the competition (Russian Mafia) and/or get the bad guys (FBI) – but they get a “twofor” because they can easily convince Tamerlan they can manufacture evidence against him – and leverage him to play ball for their team.
          Remember Uncle Ruslan’s heartfelt condemnation of BOTH brothers – but he was especially nasty about Tamerlan. Could it be Uncle Ruslan recrutied Tamerlan to work for the company – but he showed little initiative and eventually got hooked on his handlers version of Islam and went in another direction altogether? Maybe the leverage was meant to pull him back in – and then ? Who knows what? But now I am speculating – enuff said.

        • Anya

          We are all speculating and what you say makes sense as a possibility. My point is only that one needs to take the drug scene into account to understand what was going on. For example, it could explain TT and JT being in the area when Mess and the others were killed, without necessarily implicating them. It could also explain why they panicked and fled when named as persons of interest in the bombing, even if they didn’t do it. And if the FBI/police had a hold over Ibragim Todashev or JT’s young friends who took his backpack, because they were using drugs and were vulnerable to being deported even for a petty crime, those individuals had a motive to follow the script suggested to them when they told their stories.

        • olball coach

          Agreed. The drug angle suggests LE was operating on a dual track – with the brothers thinking one thing when LE was setting them up for another. It explains why they hung around for three days after the bombing, going to school, taking care of his little girl -like they were not involved with “that”. And then fled as it dawned on them what was happening. It makes that video of them in the shoot out – yelling “we didnt do it” all the more chilling.

        • Guest

          What video?

        • olball coach

          there are (someone correct me) at least 2 and maybe three indpendent videos posted on U-tube of minutes of the shootout taken by residents inside their homes watching the shootout – one in particular is only a couple hundred feet from where the brothers are standing – and you can hear them clearly say “we didnt do it” multiple times – to the point of almost begging. You can hear the people inside the house saying to themselves they are saying they didnt do it. Another one I recall might be Ketzenberg’s room mate (it is approximately the same angle and site line as the Ketzenberg photos – just slightly lower – 2nd floor maybe – again it is pretty clear what you are hearing. And a third – video taken further back away from the shooting – but you see the police cars and hear the yelling – and barely make out they are saying.

        • Jack1234

          There is also a video of a man detained on the ground. The police check his ID and say “It’s him!” and instantly an officer begins flipping lids of trash cans presumably looking for Dzhokhar or “bombs/weapons”. The man on the ground asks repeatedly to be read his rights (in a thick Russian accent) and the cops tell him no.

        • olball coach

          this is freaking amanzing –
          1) this supports (not confirms -yet) the Scanner feeds that officers where shot at on Adams Street by someone driving a stolen State Police SUV (after the Laurel/Dexter shoot out).
          2) Once the shooting stopped – a higher up officer requested all officers in the field – who had discharged their firearm to come back to the Armenian church parking lot (also he wanted to clear the traffic jam on the streets as more PD arrived on the scene. He also asked for officers in the field engaged in a crime scene to report in –
          3) officers from Laurel & Dexter reported suspect down etc., – officers at Hazel and Dexter reported suspect in custody Naked Man per CNN reporter?) and officer down – officers at Upland and Mt Auburn reported suspect on the ground ascertaining status (this was kid in the brown sweats who was released) – officers at 526 Mt Auburn reported suspect in custody (that was the only time you heard about this arrest and I had assumed it was mistaken with Upland – but this tape clearly shows it was another suspect taken into custody.
          This means four suspects at four different locations where stopped/arrested that night. And this does not include Johar(JT) who is on foot after having abandoned his Mercedes at Sprue and Lincoln.
          This (for me) confirms the chaos that night on the scanner feeds. Officers were taking on a lot more than we are being led to believe. There was a reason the brothers were circling this neighborhood that night (at least three times that we know of) and there was a reason for the 24 hour colonoscopy of this neighborhood. LE was looking for accomplices and/or handlers.

        • Jack1234

          Do you feel there are more involved than just TT and JT? Or do you feel this was a distraction created by LE or FBI? Or were they just going after all the “Tamerlan” look-alikes out at 2-3am?

        • olball coach

          I dont really know for sure…I am relaying what I wrote down from the scanner feeds and then step back and draw a conclusion or two based on all the background info from here and elsewhere.

          What I know is this:

          1) There is scanner feed, photos and Utube video showing and describing a shootout at Laurel and Dexter – with at least 2 suspects and maybe 3 described on air.

          2) There is scanner feed, photos, Utube feed of Naked Man arrested and in custody somewhere Hazel and Dexter – oh as well as CNN eyewitness Gabe something or other.
          3) There is scanner feed, and CNN video of the kid in the brown sweats face down at Upland and Mt Auburn.
          4a.) There is scanner feed of officers being fired upon at Adams Street.
          4b.) There is scanner feed of an arrest at 526 Mt Auburn (at Adams Stree) as well as now Utube video above of 2 suspects being taken into custody.
          5) there is scanner feed of a suspect on foot following shooting at officers at Spruce and Lincoln.
          Since we think Tamerlan is down at Laurel – he cant be any of the others.
          Since Johar presumably drove past officers straight down Laurel and continued straight to Spruce (Spruce becomes Laurel) and Lincoln. He cant be any of the others.
          That leaves Naked Man, Face Down Man (later released) and the two in the above video being arrested at Mt Auburn and Adams.
          I count minimum of 4 suspects – and as many as 6 – possibly 7 if there is more to the confused, reports at Laurel and Dextar.
          This is what I think I know. My conclusion at this point is that there is a lot more packed in that time frame of 10:20 pm to 3 am than we have been led to believe – and judging from the raw emotion and confusion of those 10 minutes from 12:45 am to 1:55 am there was more going on than those early responding officers expected.

        • olball coach

          Here is the article I referenced above – I pulled it from a poster to this site down thread. http://www.telegram.com/article/20130525/NEWS/130529757/0/COLUMN24&TEMPLATE=MOBILE

      • Anya

        http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2215949/pg1 Here’s an interesting thread about it positing that they were at the Marathon to deal.

        • olball coach

          while I am not a big fan of “godlike” I recognize their value. The thread, as far as I can tell, is just guys bs’n – they may or may not be legit – but like I told the other guy who got whacked for bs’n – I try to stick with what I know – and let the narrative dictate itself. If there is an earlier page I can get to that sources what they are talking about – while interesting and points to something else – I have thought of – I will just leave it at that. Moving on to your next post.

        • olball coach

          I reread the post and read the CNN sources. Hmm? It fits, loosely with something I saw elsewhere as I noted below, but – whew!, thats getting way past my pay grade. I will follow with interested eyes.

    • Dianne Foster

      I imagine I have written this already somewhere, but the probable brother of Brendan Mess (murder victim in Waltham triple murder) is Dylan Mess (white pages lists family members of Brendan in Cambridge), and he was arrested by Boxborough police (blotter Sept. 6, 2010, slightly more than one year before the murders discovered Sept. 12, 2011) because of a faulty tail-light and expired inspection sticker. The Cambridge resident was found in possession of marihuana with intent to sell due to presence of bags and a scale. This suburb is west of Waltham, near the next ring out from Rte. 128 of circumferential highways – Route 495. Whether this connects him with the possible murder house is interesting.

      • olball coach

        Mess’s girlfriend reports that one of three guys living there (dont think it was his brother though) had been arrested with major stash and cash, served time and was recently released and staying there until he got back on feet.

  • David

    Anybody catch this one? These guys were both members of an elite FBI team that responded in Boston. A little swan dive from a hello into the Rio de la Pla… Er, the North Atlantic. Needs follow-up: what might they have known?

  • ozymandias

    This article is from the mighty New York Times re: the FBI putting together sting operations to capture the most incompetent, ambivalent, pathetic “terrorists” you ever saw. Maybe Boston wasn’t a “false flag,” but could have been one of these that went all too wrong.
    Terrorist Plots, Hatched by the FBI
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/terrorist-plots-helped-along-by-the-fbi.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0

    • olball coach

      Interesting how the AP and Fox News reporter scandels are about leaks to the press regarding sting operations, who turn around and report – obviously, embarrassing somebody. The arguement these leaks compromise national security is a real stretch.

    • bostonboomer

      That’s my hypothesis. I think the FBI tried to get Tamerlan to be an informer. He may have gotten angry at the harassment (which can be constant–just read The Terror Factory or reports on what they did to Todashev) and when he was even turned down for US citizenship, maybe he decided to do his own bombing.

      It could also be that the CIA wanted Tamerlan to report back on terrorists in Dagestan/Chechnya area. That would explain why he was able to flight out of JFK so easily–even when he was on at least two watch lists–and then fly out of Moscow easily again with the Russian FSB constantly keeping tabs on him.

      Just some idle thoughts…

  • Guest

    Russ, you indicate in the first two paragraphs of this piece that you did investigative work at the scene of the shoot-out. Are you planning to write a detailed account of that event? One is needed before I am ready to conclude (as you apparantly have) that the story we have been told by official sources and the mainstream media about the shoot-out is largely accurate.

    I do not find it plausible that the two brothers, upon noting the observation of Officer Joe Reynolds, would decide their best chance of escape was to stand illuminated by the headlights of the mercedes and use their one weapon in a shoot-out with Officer Reynolds and all the responding officers soon on the scene.

    It would have been much more “natural” for them to jump into one of the vehicles and proceed down Laurel Street to Dexter. Or run into the darkness of the residential properties.

    Yes, at some point police officers were on both ends of Laurel (wasn’t Donohue shot on Dexter?) but not at the start of the encounter.

    Those photos of those two men standing in the cone of light created by the mercedes really bother me. It seems an ideal position for those taking photographs but the worst possible position for anyone who is being shot at.

    • olball coach

      You have nailed it. According to the scanner feeds from officers in the field in real time: 1) almost immediately after dispatch reported shots fired – it is reported by dispatch that the suspects are attempting to turn around and flee – 2) officers in the field then report shots fired, suspects are out car firing their weapons – they are on foot running through backyards (google Laurel and Dexter and you will see those are wide open yards – few fences) 3) its then reported from an officer located at Adams Street – shots fired, shots fired – suspects are driving a stolen “State Police” SUV or truck. Dispatch asks if he needs an ambulance? 4) A different officer reports shots fired and confirms “stolen State Police SUV – he announces officer down at Hazel and Dexter. 5) This all takes place in the span of about 8 minutes – officers report suspect and officer down at Laurel & Dexter – 6) officers report officer down at Hazel and Dexter – officers report at least three suspects in custody and one on foot – one at Laurel and Dexter (guy run over) – one at Dexter and Hazel (naked guy) and one at Upland and Dexter (guy in brown sweats – he is later released).

      • guest

        Has anyone in the media or in government written a detailed account of the shoot-out? If so, please post the link.

        The Globe reported that Watertown patrolman Jeff Pugliese fired his weapon at TT “from the side” (meaning from a location between the houses along Laurel), wounding TT as he charged into the withering gunfire from Laurel and Hazel..

        How many other law enforcement personnel discharged their weapons in the course of the fire-fight? Which departments did they work for and what weapons did they fire?

        Were all located at or near the intersection of Laurel and Hazel? If not, where else were they located?

        And can anyone provide a plausible explanation of why the man alleged to be DT tried to escape by executing a 180 degree turn in a narrow street (maybe 20 feet wide) and driving toward the substantial police presence at Hazel and Laurel than driving straight ahead toward Dexter?

        • olball coach

          1. I have followed this pretty closely – and I have to see a detailed report. Several cursory articles have appeared in the Globe and Harold and elsewhere – none are: definitive, rely much on third party witnesses (admittedly it was dark) and frankly- convincing.

          2. However, the scanner feeds diverge from the “official narrative” and I have written about that here already.

          3. The Mercedes was id’d by lo-jack (according to dispatch) to be located at 81 Dexter. Officer “16” requested to engage and was affirmed.

          4. Initial shootout occurred on Laurel – and is verified by the Ketzenberg photos.

          5. Dispatch reports “suspects” are attempting to turn around and flee. Officers on the scene then report “suspects” are out of the car – on foot and firing their weapons. (again this is all on scanner recordings at the address I have supplied above). It is at Laurel and Dexter where the “official narrative” tell us that Tamerlan went down – as well as one officer.

          6. Hazel is one block north of Laurel, crossed by Dexter. These three streets form a triangle. This is where officers report “stolen State Police SUV” and shots fired, shots fired….and, “officer down.” This is also where the CNN reporter tells us of the Naked Man in custody.

          7. There is also reports and video of someone down at UPland/Dexter and Mt.Auburn. We know this because in the footage you can id the funeral home by its sign in the corner of the yard. This is the kid lying face down in the street wearing the brown sweats. He is later reportedly released.

          8. The last reports of shots fired is west along Laurel where Laurel becomes Spruce. At @ Spruce & Lincoln officers report shots fired and “officers pinned down” and they drive off the road into someones backyard. Minutes later, other officers id the Mercedes – its still running – as being empty. They begin a search for JT from there. Interestingly – JT is found not more than a couple hundred yards or so 1 block over.

          9. The only reason I can think of JT turning around and running the blockade – is that the shoot out was fairly quick – and there was not a lot of police there at the moment he/they made that decision.
          They must have thought they could bust through.
          Funny thing, the shoot out was over for several minutes and dispatch was still assigning cars to Watertown. It got so bad that several higher ups had to order cars/officers out of the field and into the Greek church and Armenian Church parking lots off of Mt Auburn/Bigelow to clear streets.

  • http://www.DNotice.org/ Dean Jackson

    The article reads, “Whether or not they planted the bombs at the 2013 Boston Marathon, whether or not they acted alone or in concert with others, whether they were ideologues or dupes, it seems evident that they were involved in some kind of violent adventure culminating in the death of Tamerlan Tsarnaev and the shooting and apprehension of his brother Dzhokhar.”

    We know no such thing. What we do know is that if the Tsarnaev brothers were true terrorists they would never have chosen the unusually heavy police presence at the finish line, with bomb sniffing dogs patrolling the area and an announced bomb drill minutes before the end of the marathon.

    We then have the ludicrous ten-minute shootout at the O.K. Corral, where not only does backup fail to arrive in that ten-minute time span, but the intersections aren’t cordoned off!

  • Pingback: Officer Collier Shooting: “Rosebud” Moment of the Boston Bombing? The Contradictions Keep Comin « Document The Truth

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  • TycheSD

    According to this comprehensive article from the New York Times, an officer told one of their reporters that they have evidence that the suspects “went for” Collier’s gun.

    “While there is video of two men approaching Officer Collier’s car, three law enforcement officials said, it does not clearly show their faces. But investigators now believe the brothers killed the officer to get another gun.

    ‘He had a triple-lock holster, and they could not figure it out,” a law enforcement official said. “There is evidence at the scene to suggest that they were going for his gun.'”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/us/officers-killing-spurred-pursuit-in-boston-attack.html?smid=tw-share&pagewanted=all

    • olball coach

      According to the scanner feed from MIT dispatch – the officers gun is reported as missing by officers attending to him on the scene. About 10 minutes later it is reportedly found due west at @ 15 Vasser Street. That same officer also reports an eye witness at or near that location.
      A second eye witness is reported down Main street – who claims to have seen the 5’11” 200 lb mexican with dark clothes and the cowboy hat. This individual was also the subject of the earlier BOLO issued following the 7-11 robbery on Mass Ave. According to google maps – from that 7-11 to Building 32 Strata were Collier was shot is about 10 minute walk (down Mass left on Vasser)…?
      From the eye witnesses and 2 surveillance cameras overlooking the location of where Collier was shot – LE issued their first BOLO for 5’11” mexican etc. etc., as suspect for the 7-11 robbery and the MIT shooting.
      Once the carjacking is reported – and then the descriptions and statements are taken from the “Danny” (carjack victim) and the Shell Station Clerk (River and Memorial) – LE issues BOLO for 2 middle eastern men both 5’7″, slender etc., Heading for Manhatten – CONNECTED TO THE MIT SHOOTING.
      It seems they went with the carjacking victims story that the brothers admitted they were the MIT shooters.
      Hard to believe – but that is what is reported. My question is how did Danny and the Shell Clerk mistake Tamerlan (6’4” 220) – for a 5’7” runt.

      • TycheSD

        Well, according to several people on Twitter and elsewhere, the suspect was initially thought to be a dark-skinned white male, about 250 pounds wearing a bucket hat who stole Officer Collier’s gun and shot him with it.

        On Greta Van Susteren’s show on Fox, it was reported that the suspect was someone fleeing from a robbery. There were also reports of suspect seen getting on the Red Line, suspect being dropped off at a Doubletree Hotel, a suspect jumping over the second floor balcony at a building on the MIT campus, etc. Maybe these were all people calling in to police after seeing suspicious activity.

        1. Is there a description of the robber of the 7-Eleven?

        2. Has the robber of the 7-Eleven been caught?

        3. The MIT shooting occurred sometime around 10:23 p.m. on April 18. Danny, the car-jacking victim, said he was sitting in his car just before midnight texting or reading a text. That’s about an hour and a half between Officer Collier getting shot and the car-jacking. What were police scanners saying during that time period about the description of the suspect in the MIT shooting?

        • olball coach

          I don’t know about the twitter feeds – I followed the Scanners – the description of the 7-11 robbery was announced on air by dispatch – as a BOLO (be on look out) was the 5″11″ 200 lbs, dark clothes, “mexican” (exact words) with a cowboy hat. Officer Collier’s gun was reported missing by responding officers. About 10 minutes later officer(s) on foot verifed the gun had been found somewhere near/around 15 Vasser Street – which is around the corner from the shooting.

          Dont know whether 7-11 robbery is closed.

          Openging lines from Boston.Com interview with Danny: The 26-year-old Chinese entrepreneur had just pulled his new Mercedes to the curb on Brighton Avenue to answer a text when an old sedan swerved behind him, slamming on the brakes. A man in dark clothes got out and approached the passenger window. It was nearly 11 p.m. last Thursday.
          Collier is heard on air calling for officer down, officer down – 10:28 pm
          So – it is actually about 30 minutes between Collier shooting and carjacking – scanner feed during this time is: 1) responding to Collier, 2) calls for backup, 3) setting up perimeter, 4) directing officers to the Red Line – 5) finding the officers missing gun – 6) Id’ing a witness at 15 Vasser (confirms the 7-11 BOLO) 8) two officers at the scene of the shooting say they are going upstairs to review and obtain surveillance from two cameras in “good” locations. 9) id’ing another witness down Main street at the Marriot who confirmed the 7-11 BOLO.
          10) based on the witness id’s and the surveillance data (I presume) dispatch airs a BOLO for the 7-11 suspect – also wanted in connection with the MIT shooting. This BOLO was issued at least two more times before the carjacking. Theres a lot more – but that is important stuff I think.
          As I have stated elsewhere plenty of times the carjacking narrative is at odds with the scanner feeds that night. Following his interview with Danny and the Shell clerk at roughly 12:35 am -Officer “19” clearly states the carjacking took place at 1001 Cambridge in front of Richey’s Shell. (I googled this and there is shell station there)

      • TycheSD

        Also, do we know whether “Danny” is clearly able to understand English and to speak English? Is it possible that there were misunderstandings in the communication between him and law enforcement?

  • Jack1234

    In an article from 2008, it appears the US “felt” the next attack could occur by white Americans or Europeans. Wow, not surprising that they were “correct” yet let Tamerlan Tsarnaev “slip” through the system. How convenient.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2778261/Next-US-terror-attack-could-be-by-white-Americans-or-Europeans.html

    Another coincidence:
    One line in an article stated that MIT Ofc. Sean Collier volunteered at the same gym Tamerlan Tsarnaev used to box at. The owner said it was doubtful they ever crossed paths…but no one has confirmed they didn’t know each other. I keep going back to that statement. If Tamerlan was setup, maybe, just maybe he called someone he thought he could trust (Collier) to help him and in turn Collier was shot (by ??) because he heard the truth. A small but important detail that has never been addressed by anyone yet keeps me wondering.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boston-bombers-kill-mit-officer-article-1.1321727

    • olball coach

      that explains why LE emptied the club of its records and tapes – in the days following. The cowinky dinks keep piling up.

  • Anya

    One more thing: why did Tarek Ahmed, the clerk in the Mobile gas station into which car jacking victim “Danny” fled, describe Danny as “white”? Danny’s Chinese identity was immediately apparent to the Tsarnaev brothers according to Danny’s story. http://now.msn.com/tarek-ahmed-gas-station-worker-describes-boston-carjacking-victim-panic

  • http://www.DNotice.org/ Dean Jackson

    Why was my comment deleted?

  • TycheSD

    You may have all seen this, but authorities appeared to be staging a reenactment of the shooting of Officer Collier by driving the Tsarnaevs’ green Honda around MIT a couple of weeks ago. http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/01/17991679-green-honda-could-prove-crucial-if-tsarnaev-charged-in-mit-officers-killing?lite

    Assuming Officer Collier was shot with the same gun used by Tamerlan Tsarnaev at the Watertown shootout, wouldn’t the ballistics evidence be enough without having to try to identify the car they were driving on MIT surveillance cameras?

    • olball coach

      photoshop ops

      • TycheSD

        What do you mean?
        And, wouldn’t ballistics evidence be enough to claim that Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s gun was used to kill Officer Collier, if that is what has been found to be true?

        • olball coach

          I cant think of any other reason to recreate the scene than to photoshop the green Honda into the surveillance tapes. You would think ballistics evidence from TT’s gun would be enough to match to the Collier shooting.
          (Unless, of course, the evidence doesn’t match, and nor have they located a matching weapon – and, well, need to make some additional evidence.)

        • TycheSD

          I think you guys either have more vivid imaginations than I do or you’re more paranoid than I am.

          It’s my understanding that they have surveillance tapes of the area around MIT on the night of the shooting, and want to see if it matches the green Honda.
          Also, I’m wondering if they’re not broadcasting their Collier evidence yet because the potential charges against the remaining brother are State of Massachusetts charges and won’t be presented until after the Feds present their case.

        • olball coach

          wouldnt license plates do it for them? and anyway – doesnt the current “official narrative” go something like – two guys are seen on foot approaching Colliers car from behind? Anyway I have already posted here several times what the surveillance tapes show and what the two eye witnesses say – based on the scanner feeds that night.

        • bostonboomer

          How could police manning the scanners that night have already seen the surveillance tapes? That makes no sense.

        • olball coach

          This is from the MIT scanner.
          Two of the officers who arrived at the scene of the MIT shooting – said that two cameras where perched overhead (I am presuming Building 32 where Collier was shot) and provided a “good” view. They said they were going upstairs to get a look at them. Chatter went on for about 10 minutes related to setting up a perimeter, going to check out Red Line directing arriving officers to fan out etc., (The BOLO for the 7-11 robbery had already went out) An officer reported Colliers missing weapon found and that he had a witness (based on the 7-11 description) – this was at 15 Vasser Street, around the corner and down the street from where the shooting occurred. Several minutes later another officer called in from the Marriot on Main street (south of the shooting) and said he had a witness who had seen the guy in the cowboy hat (7-11 BOLO). He was told to stay with the witness until an investigator arrived (I believe “19” but not sure – “19” was a higher up who directed a lot of what went on that night and officers deferred to him). About 20 -30 minutes later MIT issued a BOLO for 5’11′” 200 lbs “Mexican” dark clothes and cowboy hat – WANTED IN CONNECTION WITH 7-11 ROBBERY AND SHOOTING OF MIT OFFICER – this was repeated a few times. And later issued a couple of more times – before the carjacking.
          So- dispatch made the call – But it was at the direction of whoever the investigator was and I am assuming in consultation with the two officers who went upstairs to review the Strata Building 32 cameras video. I cant imagine that any higher up would have directed and issued the BOLO that many times without everyone checking and rechecking their facts.

        • Dianne Foster

          It’s the Stata Center. And I am sure you realize the 7-11 on Main St. wasn’t robbed by any Tsarnaev. Nor were they even in a 7-11. The executives of the company are clear on that.

        • guest

          I do wonder if the only gun the Tsarnav brother (Tamerlan) had may turn out to be a BB gun – they did report there was a BB gun found. Have not seen a single piece of evidence to show Dzhokhar had any weapon at any time.

        • guest

          ps – they do look quite similar a Ruger 9mm and BB gun

        • TycheSD

          Plus they’re trying to connect Tamerlan Tsarnaev and the Ruger he was using to a gun that was supposedly ripped off from the residence of Brendan Mess, during the alleged triple murder of Mess and his two friends back in 2011. This is the crime that the Orlando FBI shooting victim was allegedly confessing to and implicating Tsarnaev in.

        • Dianne Foster

          Of course now they have DNA from the friend that they killed in Orlando.

  • Woody Box

    “…whether or not they acted alone or in concert with others, whether they were ideologues or dupes, it seems evident that they were involved in some kind of violent adventure culminating in the death of Tamerlan Tsarnaev and the shooting and apprehension of his brother Dzhokhar.”

    Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s backpack was not the second bomb. The epicenter was not at the exact location where DT dropped the backpack – it was about 5 meters away. DT obviously was set up as a scapegoat.

    Read more:

    Second bomb exploded on Forum restaurant’s patio

    http://911woodybox.blogspot.de/2013/04/second-bomb-exploded-on-forum.html

    • olball coach

      After giving it a second look from the perspective of the finish line (early contributor provided excellent footage) – the “crown” of the explosion does seem to emerge from further back off the street. But……
      My question is – how then did the metal tube fencing get bent outward? That is 6-10 ft from the patio to the mailbox and obviously from the photos of the aftermath there were a lot people in the way in between. The only way the fence could be bent in that way is for enough of the fence to “hook” to the inside of the mail box ( I am doing this from memory) to grab or hook hold of the mailbox as the explosion is pushing the majority of the remaining fence forward and in to the street. Pictures (again from memory) – show people jumping the fence and sliding the fence around the mail box to clear the way for 1st responders. Pictures before the explosion show the Richard family and many others hanging on the fence seemingly between the fence and the explosion. Just asking? Its late and I cant think this through right now?

      • Woody Box

        The distance between the mailbox and the center of the patio is even bigger, something like 15 ft, but keep in mind that there were several injured people inside the Forum restaurant who were previously on the patio and were blown inside. It is impossible that a bomb at the mailbox could have blown several people through the door inside.

        This information together with the pictures makes the patio clearly the epicenter of the blast. I’m sure any expert will confirm this. It has already been confirmed by several witnesses anyway.

        The Richard family, btw, has been at bomb site #1. This one picture with Martin and DT in the background is obviousl photshopped.

        • olball coach

          Yes, agreed.

        • Jack1234

          “The Richard family had been trying to get away from the first explosion when they were caught in the second blast.”

          Wouldn’t the above statement contradict any statements or photos out there identifying Dzhokhar setting a backpack down near the Richard family?

          http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/16/boston-marathon-martin-richard-killed

        • toneii

          th eother story is that they had just come back from getting ice cream. And who was the child blown out into the street. Was it martin? Seemed to be a blonde hair child.

        • Jack1234

          I’ve also heard the version of them just getting ice cream as well. I’m not sure who the blonde is you’re talking about though. I honestly haven’t focused too much on the victims photos at the time of the blast.

        • olball coach

          if they had come back from ice cream – where is it?

        • Woody Box

          The picture with Martin at the barrier and DT in the background is photoshopped! I’m sure I’ve seen the same DT head on another photo. Also, DT left his bag only ten seconds before the Forum explosion – are we to believe that this photo is taken seconds before the second blast?

          The Richards family were at the finish line, the first expolsion site! Martin wanted to congratulate his father (he was a Marathon participant). All these stuff that insinuates that the Richards family was at the Forum is disinformation! Check it yourself by googling.

        • Jack1234

          I don’t have the skills to confirm photoshopping but I do concur that certain pictures appear “off” in some way. I submitted the statement from above about the Richards family running from the first blast, to show that they weren’t just casually standing on the fencing when the second bomb went off. According to their own family spokesperson, after the first explosion they were on the move “trying to get to the street” when they were caught in the second blast. That info tells me that the picture being spread of Dzhokhar standing behind the Richards family and supposedly setting the backpack down then is a farce.

        • olball coach

          Bingo

        • Woody Box

          I think I found the original picture where they cut out DTs head from – it’s the one after the blast where the discussion was
          if he still has his backpack (I think he hasn’t):

          http://cryptome.org/2013-info/04/boston-bombs/pict91.jpg

        • guest

          there is a creepy guy in foreground looking at dzhokhar and laughing – saw people point him out before – just noticed his B on his jumper.

        • Jack1234

          I’ve always wondered why people pick this picture apart regarding only Dzhokhar but haven’t mentioned the old smiley mcghee right in the center of the picture. Also it’s been mentioned that Dzhokhar “casually” walked away but no one cares to mention the guy with the suit jacket just chilling against the building. None of this proves anything imo but it certainly shows how focused people can be and disregard other bothersome aspects. The guy further back that people suspect could be TT in the khaki pants is actually an asian man with his family. I saw a zoomed in photo of his face before.

        • Dianne Foster

          The story about greeting the father running in the Marathon (how little Martin ran out to kiss him) was withdrawn. Just one more working narrative that didn’t work. Changed to an uncle who was running. Makes little sense.

        • olball coach

          Okay – I am posting two sets of pictures. The first from the Daily Mail (scroll down to the pictures) shows the Richard family standing in front of a tree (Mom and son) and a shade to the right (Dad and daughter). Orient where they are in relation to the restaurant by keeping mind the green light and blue rolled up awning behind them. Scroll down and look at the graphic scene moments after the explosion – the chairs and tables on the patio are still standing – things are still standing on the tables. You can draw a semi circle from the mail box to the where the little boy went down and see the explosion force centered somewhere behind the tree but not all the way to the patio.
          Now go to the coolpix (sorry doesnt allow us to save each pik) You can see they were almost exactly square in front of the Forum. The shrapnel pattern and blood suggests the bomb was placed behind the tree to some degree. I recall an article where Dad said the tree saved his daughters life because it absorbed some of the blast.

          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2311616/Boston-bombings-Chilling-image-shows-year-old-Martin-standing-Boston-bomb-suspect-moments-planted-explosive.html

          http://totallycoolpix.com/2013/04/boston-marathon-bombings/

        • Essebee

          Add this to the fodder.

          Look at the fourth Mail pic. The one captioned “Chaos. Tsarnaev calmly walks away…” Note the position of Tsarnaev’s left arm. It is anything but a position associated with a walking gait. Compare it to the arm positions of the others fleeing the scene. No doubt he is fleeing the perceived danger zone as well.

          Also, in the same photo, who is the man to the rear of Dzhokhar, just to the left of the woman in the pink jacket? He, too, is fleeing danger zone. Note the hat, jacket, and khaki slacks. Is this not Tamerlan? If it is, and he had separated to place the first device at the finish line, why would he have returned through what he would have known was a second danger zone? Logic says he would have exited the area by a safe route. However, if he had maintained a position in proximity to his brother based on their ingress into the area, you would expect his position to be just about where the figure in question is as people panic and flee untold potential danger following the second explosion.

        • olball coach

          I read somewhere JT has some sort of “gimp” to his gait – I think one leg is shorter than the other or some such thing. Nevertheless it didnt hinder his excellent wrestling abilities.

        • olball coach

          On another blog I am following – there has been a huge debate over whether that photo has been “shopped” and a backpack removed. Two guys with years of experience – eventually agreed to disagree but did suppose in agreement – that if it can be determined that the photo was submitted to the FBI before it was released to the public – then its possible the photo could have been altered. The question is the photo shows up on the photographers FB page on the 15th and its released on the 19th – ???

        • public_servant_watch

          The photo is still on the dude’s cell phone and regardless if the FBI photo shopped out any hint of the back pack that may have shown the picture is inadequate evidence to represent that JT was without his back pack. On the right his jacket is tugged down and his shoulder appears weighted down – the angle simply did not capture a back pack carried by one strap on the right!!

  • Jack1234

    I heard this stated on live tv, it was not a mis-quote in an article. It is a major inconsistency considering suspect 2 was carrying a mostly gray or white backpack.

    “Thomas Menino, the mayor of Boston, said that a significant lead had been provided by video footage recorded by a department store security camera. The footage was reported to show a possible suspect dropping a black bag at the location of the second bomb shortly before the blast.”

    Maybe Dzhokhar Tsarnaev didn’t get the memo that he was supposed to have a “black bag” that day.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/17/boston-bombings-investigation-cctv

  • TycheSD

    I wonder if Mr. Baker has suspicions about the Orlando shooting? I sure do. It seems the FBI became involved in the Middlesex County DA, Marian Ryan’s, investigation of the unsolved triple murder in Waltham, MA on September 11, 2011, because relatives and friends of the victims and Tamerlan Tsarnaev became suspicious about Tsarnaev after the bombing. The thinking is that, once you learn that a friend of yours is capable of bombing the Boston Marathon, and killing and maiming people, he could be capable of other murders.

    Supposedly, there is DNA evidence linking Tamerlan Tsarnaev to the Mess residence or crime scene. It’s not clear yet what evidence they have, outside the dead Todashev’s alleged confession. Tamerlan was a frequent visitor to Mess’s apartment, as they were good friends–even eating specially prepared Muslim meals cooked by Mess’s girlfriend. But friends were suspicious that Tsarnaev did not attend Mess’s funeral.

    • TycheSD

      It was reported today by the Washington Post that Ibragim Todashev, the Orlando Chechen man, was unarmed.

      • olball coach

        No ceremonial sword? I was really looking forward to that being true – I mean, what a way to go?

  • Tantalumm

    I live in Boston, have closely followed the Collier murder. Sometime, maybe 2 weeks after Apr 15, I heard a bulletin on WRKO morning radio, asking if there were any witnesses to this incident and requesting that they come forward. They provided the time and location coordinates. I was stunned, as the formal story was well into its implantation into the media. My conclusion now: they were looking for witnesses who might step forward and contradict the formal lie.

  • judes

    This is an excellent article. I was listening to the scanners also and when I watched the TV what they were reporting was different.

    I have read a theory that the carjacker may have been sent to meet with them to bring them in – a handler or FBI agent like you say – something went wrong – MIT security guy may be involved. Danny is definitely dodgy – the whole story does not match up. They clearly have no evidence linking the Brothers to the MIT guy’s death.

    A possible explanation re the marathon – Tamerlan was CIA asset – wanted out. Was sent to the drill at the marathon (there was a woman posting on FB in the week after saying she was freaking out as he visited her massage place the week before and said he had to go to work at a security drill at the marathon – when she saw his face she was really shocked it was the same guy).

    Tamerlan thought maybe something was up and got his brother to come along and watch his back. I don’t think they had any bombs on them or dropped them.

    I think it is strange there are no photos of Tamerlan near the 1st bomb site.

    That is very interesting the MIT officer was at the same gym as Tamerlan and that Donohue was at both scenes. I read one report that said when the FBI HRT got Dzhokhar out of the boat, they asked the Tranit police if they wanted cuff him and they did that. No doubt at this point they still thought the Brothers were responsible for Donohue’s injuries (rather than friendly fire) – this may explain why someone took their aggression out on the unarmed 19 yr old who seemed to get seriously injured somewhere between him climbing out of the boat and the calls for ‘Medic Medic’ heard on the scanner. There is a very long period on the scanner during the arrest – where there is not much being reported – maybe 20 minutes or so. Also where is the helicopter downlink? They said on this scanners to the guys in the chopper that this was being broadcast online – somebody must have a copy?

    FBI are seriously strange thinking that people are so gullible with the stories they are putting out – maybe they don’t care if only 60% of the population believe them. I think the ridiculous boat note made many wake up – and then the Todashev shooting – now they have changed the story again and are saying today he attacked the agents with a CEREMONIAL SWORD.

    Something is going on with Russia behind the scenes – all that wig wearing spy nonsense was very weird.

  • Mr. M

    Brilliant – this is real journalism.

  • Frank

    Google “Misreporting the Boston Bombings” for a sourced blog post with a lot of lesser-known info.

  • olball coach

    I am pulling this post up from down thread. I just listened to the whole thing and the comments. This is wild stuff.

    white hat, speaking Russian, 2 suspects arrested and led away – approximately where it is reported via scanner feeds that shots fired – are coming from a stolen State Police Black SUV -(which btw – is a Mercede 350).

    • olball coach

      This was my initial reaction from down thread.

      this is freaking amanzing –
      1) this supports (not confirms -yet) the Scanner feeds that officers where shot at on Adams Street by someone driving a stolen State Police SUV (after the Laurel/Dexter shoot out).
      2) Once the shooting stopped – a higher up officer requested all officers in the field – who had discharged their firearm to come back to the Armenian church parking lot (also he wanted to clear the traffic jam on the streets as more PD arrived on the scene. He also asked for officers in the field engaged in a crime scene to report in –
      3) officers from Laurel & Dexter reported suspect down etc., – officers at Hazel and Dexter reported suspect in custody Naked Man per CNN reporter?) and officer down – officers at Upland and Mt Auburn reported suspect on the ground ascertaining status (this was kid in the brown sweats who was released) – officers at 526 Mt Auburn reported suspect in custody (that was the only time you heard about this arrest and I had assumed it was mistaken with Upland – but this tape clearly shows it was another suspect taken into custody.
      This means four suspects at four different locations where stopped/arrested that night. And this does not include Johar(JT) who is on foot after having abandoned his Mercedes at Sprue and Lincoln.
      This (for me) confirms the chaos that night on the scanner feeds. Officers were taking on a lot more than we are being led to believe. There was a reason the brothers were circling this neighborhood that night (at least three times that we know of) and there was a reason for the 24 hour colonoscopy of this neighborhood. LE was looking for accomplices and/or handlers.

    • lollollol

      Where you hear Tamerlan and Jahar being yelled out in this clip at the end – I am sure that it just picked up on the audio from a nearby street and not coming from the guy on the ground. They were yelling out a lot for each other in other videos.

      • Jack1234

        This video cuts off before the yelling out. But I have heard the yelling in another video and in my opinion it appeared someone was saying Tamerlan. I have also heard others say the yelling was for Dzhokhar. I wish someone with good equipment could analyze that and clear up what name is being called out at the end.

        • lololol

          This video has the yelling in the background – it is at 12:22

          Clearly someone yelling Jahar – then Tamerlan – can hear it with headphones.

        • olball coach

          Agreed – cant mistake that. Now the poster thinks one of these getting arrested might be TT and/or “Naked Man”. But I highly doubt it. On the scanners that night the arrest at Adams/Mt Auburn was referred to several times as “shots fired”, and “stolen State Police Suv” – but the actual arrest was referred to only once (at 526 Mt Auburn). The video concludes with the “white hat” man walking down the street. This is odd.
          We have seen the white hat worn by both brothers that night on surveillance photos and TT’s personal pictures shows him wearing this hat several times.
          But I dont get why they would walk TT from 526 Mt Auburn to Dexter/Auburn and then down Dexter to roughly the Hazel block or Dartmouth and then strip him – question/redress and photo him…? Gabe Ramirez the CNN photojournalist describes walking down Dexter several blocks, south of Nichols, to view and the film the Naked Man. It just doesnt make sense – and there is no word of this on the scanners.
          INMO it is not Naked Man – but it could be – JT, or TT….

        • public_servant_watch

          I agree that the yelling is a calling out for Tamerlan and I believe they are separating them at this time and that it is JT yelling. Next the episode with Tamerlan being instructed to strip naked occurs. Tamerlan is then allowed to dress and he is handed over to the FBI. The next scene is the Watertown shootout with one way bullets and flash bangs coming from the authorities. JT runs on foot while they are attending the down MBTA officer who caught their fire.

      • olball coach

        No the yelling the commenter describes is right at the beginning – and he translates it as Russian for its a set up. I dont know – I wouldnt know Russian from outer Mongolian.

        • olball coach

          Does anyone or anyone care to take a stab at translating what is being yelled, by the suspects in the first 10-15 secs of this clip. The reason I like this clip – is that the guy taking the video does not appear to appreciate how explosive this piece could be – it is the commenter who picks up the Russian dialect. The white hat is amazing – from the surveillance piks taken and made public that night – we know either JT or TT or ?? was wearing one. Amazing piece of video.

        • Jack1234

          Some have said it’s “Podstava”, Russian for “set up”. But I also wonder if it’s a Boston accent of a cop saying “Port/Starboard”. Hopefully someone can clear this up as I know there is technology to clarify the sound better.

        • public_servant_watch

          The “white” hat this time is worn by Tamerlan and this scene is when they captured both of these men. You will see in the attached picture JT going to the ATM and that picture took a few days to release; they photo shopped Tamerlan’s hat onto JT’s head before they released the pic and then ABC was printing and saying on the TV, “See there he is with his white hat.” At the same time the press was putting out that the white hat, meaning JT’s cap, was found at the Dartmouth residence. A witness saw a police SUV knock down Tamerlan and then saw the police shoot him multiple times; perhaps they were going to use a stolen police SUV story before they came up with the “Danny” tale because they had not yet contacted their stooge who would speak for them and relay the tale as directed. Clearly this “Danny” was under no present danger yet he refused to show his face and had his voice altered for interviews. The satire at http://plogspot101.blogspot.tw/2013/04/the-rich-kid-26-from-china-whose-last.html calls out the BS in this little stunt by our more than apparent state ran MSM (there are follow up blogs that continue the entertainment if you look for them from the initial link).. https://twitter.com/rebelready/status/327215069379325952/photo/1

        • Jack1234

          If it’s true they were both caught during this video, that would explain why we hear yelling at the end. My personal stance has always been that DT was caught and then planted on that boat. Why would he stay on the boat for so long only to peacefully surrender? Why wouldn’t he do something to get himself killed? Has anyone ever noticed that during the flash bang attacks on the boat, the live helo images didn’t show him even flinching? He appeared to be drugged in my opinion.

        • public_servant_watch

          My note above to olball coach includes what I wanted in my reply to you. I am getting mixed up keeping up with the blog- imagine the difficult time all these tax supported liars are having keeping things straight.

        • olball coach

          And that is a fair assumption, but it begs the question – who was run over at Dexter & Laurel? who were they chasing through the backyards? Of all the “in custody” reports that came in from the field in those first minutes after the shootouts – this one at 526 Mt Auburn was mentioned only once. And this one is not mentioned in any of the press stories – everything is focused on Dexter and Laurel, Hazel and Dexter, Lincoln and Spruce.

          The white hat? It’s starting to show up everywhere now. I don’t know – its symbolic of something. Interesting Danny never mentions the white hat – and the white hat is never mentioned in the BOLO’s but there it is in the video, in the surveillance photos – I’ve seen personal photos of the brothers and there both wearing it. Its weird to say the least.

        • public_servant_watch

          The white hat this time is not shown in any surveillance video released to the public- they released only a still shot from the ATM video and the hat is a photo shop job onto JT’s head. A time stamp of the ATM surveillance video would be nice. I believe the brothers may have gone to the ATM prior to their trip to the store earlier in the evening and the capture happened after their this trip to the store; they were being watched and tailed because this whole disgusting event was IMO planned by tax supported public servants!! The brothers were then separated and that is why JT is yelling Tamerlan as the authorities took him away. Then the naked man event happened. JT remained with authorities and after they released naked man, now dressed, to the FBI a short while later the brothers were brought together and the shoot occurred. I believe only the authorities had amo. It must have been JT on foot that they were chasing through yards – he apparently split ON FOOT and the report someone was run over at Dexter & Laurel which did not happen was BS to cover the story that would follow where the authorities claimed JT ran over and dragged his brother!! I do not believe he was planted on the boat! I believe he was hiding and scared to death!! I believe someone went on that boat before the SWAT team arrived and slit JT’s throat; I believe the flash bangs to the boat were a stall tactic hoping he would bleed to death.

        • Jack1234

          Makes sense. I’m open to possibilities from many angles at this point. I just know that in my own moment of watching and listening to all this go down it never felt right from the beginning. It would be so much easier to just believe everything we’re told and not question anything however I’m not that kind of person. The only reason I instinctively feel he may have been planted on the boat is because it was never checked. I can’t comprehend how the PD helicopter didn’t detect him on radar over an 8 hour period in the day and not one person checked the boat. The owner has stated to media that the boat was never checked. This would lead me to believe that an ulterior motive for the day was also to test that whole shelter in place technique they used. I posted a picture under a video above that questions everyone who says Dzhokhar ran over his brother…which I don’t think happend.

        • Jack1234

          Interestingly enough, the picture I posted under a video above was deleted?

        • olball coach

          Describe and repost.

        • Jack1234

          There is another video that distinctly has yelling at the end. It’s been discussed by others that it’s Tamerlan or Dzhokhar’s name being yelled but I can’t honestly make it out. Also, I saw this video in it’s original version weeks ago and the youtube channel got deleted. Since then the only copies are from those who managed to get it before it was taken down.

          Here is the version with yelling at the very end: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD9mIYaXZBU

    • Jack1234

      I didn’t realize the stolen police vehicle was also the Mercedes. Very interesting.

      • olball coach

        interestingly they have made a half hearted attempt to debunk “stolen police vehicle” heard the scanner feeds – in a Globe post LE was complaining someone hacked the system and sent out the false information. But I know, it went out on all three PD radios I transcribed and it was confirmed by several other officers.

        • Jack1234

          Yes, I remember the scanner saying Stolen police vehicle but I figured it was just a tactic to throw off others involved and create commotion and confusion. But now that more is coming out I am realizing that things being “debunked” may instead be the very things we should believe. In the very beginning, after TT was killed, his parents stated that TT called them and said the FBI contacted him to say they knew he was the bomber. According to the parents, TT told FBI “That’s your problem” (surely more was said). But FBI has stated that they never called TT and that he probably just said that to his mother so she could be prepared for when he was caught. It’s hard to know what to believe anymore and I know that those sort of answers will never be revealed.

    • Jack1234

      If this video aligns with the PD scanners then I bet this picture also aligns with the truth of the night: Dzhokhar did not run over Tamerlan.

      • olball coach

        You got a couple things going on here.
        First, the above video is of an arrest at 526 MT Auburn Drive – and followed some shots being fired at officers as confirmed by the scanners that night. If this is JT and TT being arrested then certainly the picture below the video cannot be TT on the ground. We wouldnt know who it is – but whoever it was LE trapped on Laurel and opened fire on, foot chased and later injured (at least one) put up a hell of a fight. Again, thats if 526 Mt Auburn are the brothers being arrested.
        If the two arrested at 526 MT Auburn are not the brothers then the official narrative – of a JT and TT shooting it up on Laurel and TT runover as JT flees the scene and it follows from the picture above and others taken by Andy Ketzenberg. I didnt realize this until tonight – thats is probably JT doing about 60 backwards!!
        However another idea just came to me – what if the brothers are in that pictured vehicle and they break through? They proceed forward and either turn right on Dexter or proceed foward down Laurel and eventually make their way to Mt Auburn coming up Adams Street – engage in police again, shoot out and get arrested. That fits some of what we know (526 mt auburn arrest) but not all (see below) and it does not get us back to just the two suspects. Now there are two unaccounted for – the one down at Laurel and whoever abandoned the Mercedes at Spruce and Lincoln and fled the scene.
        What happened at Dexter and Laurel? How did JT (or someone get the Mercedes to get to Spruce and Lincoln and then run and hide? It’s plausible but not likely.
        Finally, Donohue was injured around the corner on Dexter at Hazel – according to scanner feeds. First calls for officer down were on Laurel – a suspect and an officer – and then around the corner on Dexter at Hazel another call for officer down came in. Donohue going down their is consistent with the JT or (?) fleeing the scene by going up Laurel, turning right at Dexter – as he is pulling away I imagine that is when the officers set up at Laurel and Dexter unloaded and probably hit Donohue who was on the other side of Dexter. Officers from Boston and Cambridge were being directed down Dexter from Mt. Auburn.
        In the video above, I just noticed the two ambulances driving through the scene – carrying Donohue and suspect(?).

  • olball coach

    If you had watched the video below you might have seen this clip in the related clips column on the right.

    This is another stunner!. It looks like the guy had not turned this in to the FBI or LE before he got it to the news – who broke it. It messes up the timeline again. He says it was taken at 2:44 and he does not appear to have the backpack. Hmm?

    • olball coach

      So this picture puts him just to the right of – two trees down from the tree where the bomb was placed. This picture was taken at 2:44 pm. Putting the bag down, waiting, making your way back through the crowd casually – that takes what – 1-2 minutes? That puts the “bomb” drop at 2:42, 2:41 at the the outter limit. Anyone recall the timeline stated from the time he dropped to the time he walked away?

      • Jack1234

        The criminal complaint filed by FBI states he still had his bag at 2:45pm. Also there are 2 pictures that baffle me now. From the dailymail link, look at the first 3 pictures. The first one shows DT standing behind a tree, with his backpack, standing directly before a pillar with a light on it, he is facing away from where the second blast occurred. The second photo shows the explosion and it is not near the tree, blue awning, or the pillar with the light on it, the explosion occurs further up. The third photo doesn’t even make sense from the second photo with location to the explosion and also it appears there is at least one tree missing. Does that make sense? I am just now realizing these 3 pictures in this way.
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2311616/Boston-bombings-Chilling-image-shows-year-old-Martin-standing-Boston-bomb-suspect-moments-planted-explosive.html

        • lollollol

          They also lied in FBI affidavit for the criminal complaint for Robel Phillipos and said there was a gunfight at the boat with Tsarnaev – when he was later admitted to be unarmed.

        • olball coach

          Thats just sloppy – no other way to explain that. It seems the farther down this rabbit it just keeps getting worse.

        • olball coach

          Start with the L shaped traffic light at the intersection roughly even with Starbucks –

          1) street light, 2) mail box, 3) tree, 4) street sign), 5) tree, and 6) tree – this spans to width of the store fronts of both the Forum and the Atlantic Fish Co.

          You are describing a photographic effect of the camera lens “bunching” objects closer together. Go to this cool piks link and scroll down to the appropriate picture – this is an overhead view – its all there in gruesome detail.

          http://totallycoolpix.com/2013/04/boston-marathon-bombings/

          From the cool piks photo you can see they have since removed the tree that the bag was placed next to.

        • Dianne Foster

          Yes they have removed a perfectly good tree that looked fine after the bomb went off. In fact, like the flags and pickets at the Finish Line, the tree by Forum with a mailbox (green) next to it and an undamaged lamppost (not a bulb broken) was removed, probably because it lacked nails and shrapnel. Easier to claim it had them. But the picture shows intact small and large branches.

        • olball coach

          I double checked on the Richard’s narrative and you are correct – I hadnt paid much attention to that – but there are articles through the weekend (4/20- 4/21) from all over still spouting the finish line – line. It isnt until the little boys funeral on the 23rd that it starts changing and it does so on a dime.

        • olball coach

          2:44 picture of him 20 feet away – but the complaint says he still has the backpack at 2:45? In my world, man cant be in two places at once. BUT – its not a certainty he does not have his pack like the talking head suggests. Hmm? Anyone else care to venture a guess?

        • Ron47

          I guess everyone at the scene had synchronized their watches to avoid such confusion, right?

        • olball coach

          Ya know if you work that timeline in reverse – lets say the picture is taken at 2:44 as the photographer says (I am sure since it was an Iphone it is date/time stamped) AND he still does have the backpack – that means he has to hustle pretty quick – and make himself somewhat noticable – drop the bag – tap his toes – call his mother and then jet. Nope – this picture puts a big crimp in the narrative either way you go with the backpack.

        • Jack1234

          Ron47 – We’re just here to try and make sense of something that doesn’t seem to add up. Of course we’re logical enough to assume times were off but when you add together so many inconsistencies then it becomes more puzzling.

        • tionico

          check the time signature on the video cameras.. if they are user set, as are most handicams, they could haev been set a few minutes apart. The time stamp on the tape is set by the permanent memory running from the backup battery, a tiny button type, separate from the main operating battery. IF the camera’s time clock is not synched with real time, it would be “off” of real time. One would haev to get the actual camera and compare its “set” time with actual.

        • olball coach

          Like Ron alluded to below – no one was “syncing” watches – so, one presumes for the sake of arguement, but it is understood. The point is – that the timing of them arriving and placing the bombs is exact (11 minutes) and controlling of their actions – in order to accomplish their supposed goal. According to google maps (again assumptions here) it takes 6 minutes to walk from 882 Bolyston (where they walked in at 2:38/9 according to the FBI) to 673 Bolyston (@ finish line) – They had to walk through by all photo accounts a heavily traffic sidewalk – they stopped for some time in front of UNO’s restaurant (name?) and then walked down to do the “alleged” deed. Judging from the photos and the FBI description of their actions – and now this new photo surfaces with an additional accounting – it makes it questionable if they could have done all they are supposed to have in the time they had.

        • public_servant_watch

          The first picture has JT’s head photo shopped into what appears to be a photo shopped crowd. The head was taken from a still shot out of the video the FBI had of the brothers walking and I allege the FBI did the photo shopping. It is not the crowd that was in front of the Forum at the time of the blast!! It appears to be a set up from the very start and that is why we are dealing with “As the Tale Turns” multiple lies are required to continue a lie.

          https://twitter.com/rebelready/status/329256874551693312/photo/1

          http://www.fbi.gov/boston/press-releases/2013/remarks-of-special-agent-in-charge-richard-deslauriers-at-press-conference-on-bombing-investigation-1

        • olball coach

          there you go again – get out all ahead of us. I just cant jump to that conclusion until I have seen other photos of 755 Bolyston (before the bomb blast)
          Yes, there is some coincidences and data that you can point to – but and this is a big BUT – there are only 2 or 3 legit piks of that site – the cropped and questionable version the FBI is putting all their eggs in – the NBC roof shot showing the brown bag outside the barrier. There was another and I cannot find it now of the same area showing the brown bag inside the barrier – and then there is the early video by a local TV station walking through the crowd at just that spot – but from mid sidewalk (and the cameraman is a shorty) so its impossible to see who is standing at the barrier.
          If you can find additional pictures that show others standing there then lets see what they show us.

        • public_servant_watch

          This entire event from the government planned bombing to their CYA maneuvers with the initiation of the hunt for innocent Muslim brothers by putting out to the public photo shopped pics placing the brothers in a crime scene and all that followed is not absurdity or parody but, IMO, STRAIGHT UP TREASON. The inflammatory propaganda promoted by the state ran MSM has established cause for any who do hold extremist views and has set us up for retaliation during this “war on terror” and made us look like fools to all in this world who do not function with sheep mentality.

          I consider what these MORONS in government and the media have done to be TREASON and if folks here in the USA do not look past their own prejudice and ACT, this crap is going to continue and escalate to the point where every American will eventually experience a direct negative effect; by then it will be too late to call the government and media out regarding this continued BS.

          This is not a game where the public gets an opportunity to debate and point out inconsistencies in what has been outrageous government conduct; this is people being murdered and lives being ruined. WE NEED ACTION NOW! It is unquestionable that the hunt was initiated with these men photo shopped into a fake crowd and the crime scene was caused by the government. All was all a lie to cover a #FalseFlag gone bad. You can do your own puzzle solving with what I am about to post for you. I know the photo with Jahar’s head is a complete fabrication; no special equipment is needed to see this–the entire picture is full of distortions. The full picture with suspect 2 exiting the Marathon where initially I thought it was Denise Richard in the forefront was in the hands of the FBI as a tool to play their game and that is why there was so much hooplah surrounding the picture-as per usual a ruse to cover tax supported pathological liars. Also the FBI video has breaks and there were probably other still shots they extracted to use in the various photo shopped pictures and they probably had other pics not released to build their fake crowds.

          We do not need to discuss how Judy Clarke is going handle the defense–as I stated in other areas of this blog, the entire criminal case is simulated and how they will play that out for an end result that will protect a corrupt government I do not know. I do know that they have kidnapped four young men and killed two based on a lie; the chance that those in custody are being drugged in order to eventually easily coerce them to plea guilty is highly possible. NOTHING COMING FROM ANY MEDIA SOURCE CAN BE BELIEVED!

          https://twitter.com/rebelready/status/340935817490993154/photo/1

          https://twitter.com/rebelready/status/340925329096974336/photo/1

          https://twitter.com/rebelready/status/340936669786165248/photo/1

          http://ulocal.wcvb.com/_Boston-marathon-755-boylston-st-130pm/photo/18936592/61862.html

          http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/new-higher-resolution-image-of-boston-marathon-suspect-emerges/ Total ruse–they had this picture all along. When a big deal is made over what appears to be nothing, there is always a hidden agenda!!

    • public_servant_watch

      I don’t think this picture shows enough to determine no back pack; you cannot even see any part of his shoulder! I believe he has his backpack when he leaves the marathon = note how his jacket on the right is tugged down. https://twitter.com/rebelready/status/326398828674682882/photo/1

    • olball coach

      Servant – we may have something that you have been looking for.

      Been looking over piks still. Run this video again – and as soon as you get that wide angle shot with JT in the corner stop it. Now follow the trees from him to the third tree. Now hard left about 2 inches. What is that? Is that how you get a white ball cap into and out of site 2 and brush his face – thereby avoiding detection from “shop” filters.

      I’ve spent a lot of time watching this video too (below) and
      the relevant portions of the clip are from 0:07 to 0:19. Believe it – there was another shorter, older man with a red sweatshirt and white hat backwards too – but no backpack – And I spot at least 5 blackpacks, a couple fairly large. Now this video was shot supposedly an hour before the bomb went off. I compared this to the NBC photo with the brown bag in front of the barrier and I spot at least 4 maybe 5 and possibly six individuals who remained standing there the entire time from – the video taken to the brown bag photo (seconds before the bomb blast). They should at least be persons of interest as they would have seen someone moving in and dropping a bag.

  • Dianne Foster

    Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. The Boston bombing was a hoax which grew out of a drill. The falseness is not demonstrable in verbal accounts copied around the newsrooms. The falseness is evident from long unedited tapes of the event. Anything else we are told is likely to be tainted by the same falsehood. The only reason the Tsarnaev’s were named as suspects was their relationship to the bombing. That’s the nexus. If you reject, as I do, the original story, then even if Collier is dead, as I assume he is, someone else had to have killed him. The executives at 7-11 stores were at pains to deny the brothers robbed a nearby store of the night of Collier’s murder. And the original fiction of the carjacking on Third Street Cambridge that would have sandwiched the murder between two crimes was also rejected. The alleged carjacking instead took place miles away in Brighton, which was kind of hard to place the murderer of Collier at because of scrutiny and the shutdown of public transportation. Why carjack if you already had a car? The constant changing of the story on the night of the Watertown shoot-out sounded to this local resident as a script in progress.

    Mr. Baker, you were not born yesterday. Open your foolish eyes or shut the hell up.

  • Dianne Foster

    Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. The bombing itself can be viewed in an edited version via the media (along with copycat texts repeating falsehoods about numbers of victims which are not even found in the most gruesome videos). Or it can be viewed as a continuous line of both stills and supporting video at the Finish Line. Some interesting things emerge, such as the absence of people at the center of the blast, and then their moving into that space as “wounded”, who are continuously applying make-up. There are several vantage points from several videographers.

    I am convinced the whole bombing was a hoax, and so the guilt for it placed on the Tsarnaev’s is too.

    I am not even certain that the characters who looked like the brothers are the brothers.

    The Collier killing has a former “sandwich” around it of two events that did not happen. One was the robbery by the brothers of a 7-11 on Mass Ave one mile from the computer science lab Gehry building where Collier was executed. The executives of 7-11 were at pains to say two things: the brothers never robbed it nor was the photo of one of them (if it was one of them) from one of their stores. Also, the other alleged event, the carjacking near MIT at Third Avenue Cambridge never happened. If there was a carjacking, it is alleged to be miles away in the Allston-Brighton area on the other side of Harvard. These two pieces of the story were to give a rationale for the brothers’ having been at MIT to kill Collier. The working script did not work so well. Other people objected to it.

    Now, Mr. Baker has been treated in a very shabby fashion by someone at MIT. I am sure that it does not represent the entire campus, and that many people would like to know what really happened to a guy like Collier who was well-respected and even liked. The EMT-type guys and outing club guys are not completely close-mouthed unless someone put a scare into them or ordered them to shut up.

    You know the campus had a recent incident after the suicide of Mr. Swartz. It was a fake-out report of a gunman on campus. This happened before the Marathon. It shut the campus down. I wonder if something is moving beneath the surface there already.

    But as far as I am concerned, the falsehood of the bombing at the Marathon and all that followed from it has caused me to reevaluate what it means to be in an authoritarian system, something I did not realize we had in this country until now. Too many second-handers around content to regurgitate what authority tells them – and that authority is none too bright, so it’s the stupid leading the smart these days – MIT being a prime example.

  • Dianne Foster

    Anybody notice how Stoneham figures into this story – funeral for Collier, home of several of the alleged injured at the “bombing”. It’s a tiny town just off Route 128.

    • olball coach

      Okay – I bit, and I am the better for it. Stoneham is Masonic sacred ground, And the home of Killer Kowalski, of WWE fame.

      • Dianne Foster

        Just to explain the deleted comment – I merely mentioned the small town of Stoneham figures as the funeral site of Collier as well as the home of several people claiming injuries in the bombing who attended the Marathon together. Hardly makes sense to remove it.

  • Jack1234

    Off subject, but I just had to put this out there:
    “An official said that according to one account of the shooting, the other law enforcement officials had just stepped out of the room, leaving the FBI agent alone with Todashev, when the confrontation occurred.”
    Are you kidding me?!

    • Missie Baker

      And just noticed both poor Officer Collier and Todashev were killed with shot to back of head (OC shot from behind & two head shots–I’m making an assumption) plus other torso shots. Just an odd coincidence.

      • Jack1234

        I noticed that immediately also…could be a trademark m.o.

  • olball coach

    I came across this piece from another blog – it written by a resident of Watertown and confirms (albeit – he heard it from a neighbor who heard it from an officer) what I have maintained regarding Collier’s shooting – the brothers didnt do it – and what I detected over the air on what a clusterfudge the initial response was at Laurel and Dexter.
    Boston Scrod says:
    April 20, 2013 at
    3:42 am

    As a long time resident of Watertown, I can report

    with complete candor that Friday was a very unusual day.

    My
    primary impression is that in the fog of war a great deal is missed. And with
    all respect to those police and military personnel who spent yesterday in
    Watertown, hunting down one 19 year old was a relative walk in the park compared
    to what American soldiers face every day in their overseas assignments. And yet
    the confusion appears to have been overwhelming…

    As of the time I
    write this, I do not know all the facts so I apologize if anything I am about to
    say is demonstrably wrong.

    First. The younger suspect managed to escape
    from the shoot out that occurred on Dexter Ave. early Friday morning. Whatever
    the mitigating facts turn out to be, it does appear certain that a substantial number of police officers were on the
    scene and that one of the two suspects was able to get away undetected.
    It is hard not to believe that one or more officers may have dropped the ball in
    letting this happen.

    Second. Relatively early on Friday morning one of
    our neighbors was informed by police enforcing the lock down in our neighborhood
    that the Cambridge 7/11 was robbed by someone other than the terrorist suspects
    and that it was the search for that robber (who we were told was believed to
    have killed the MIT police officer) that caused the terrorist suspects to flee
    (in the mistaken belief that they were being pursued). When I first relayed this
    report to a colleague, he checked it with someone who is apparently well known
    as a talking head and as a respected expert on counter-terrorism issues. At the
    time I was told this theory was complete rubbish. Later, apparently, this same
    source told my friend that the two events were in fact not directly related. The
    implication is that the high level experts were completely clueless to the
    reality on the ground.

    Third. Our neighborhood was on lock down the
    entire day until 6:00 p.m. Police cars were stationed at nearby intersections in
    our quiet residential area and a single helicopter circled overhead for several
    hours. While taking an unauthorized walk around my block in mid-afternoon (I was
    going completely stir crazy), I came upon several dozen military-like personnel
    in black uniforms with machine guns and at least one armored personnel carrier,
    all of whom were congregated less than 150 feet from my home. They then went
    door to door asking each homeowner if he wanted his house to be searched. This
    is not an image I will not soon forget. The men who came to our door were
    exceedingly polite and well mannered. I had already searched our home and garage
    so we declined their offer to search our property. But as a neighbor observed,
    if an unseen member of our family had been being held at gunpoint, would they
    have understood this when we declined their offer to search our home? And they
    certainly made no effort to search the yards in our neighborhood which have many
    large, full and mature shrubs that could easily hide a man. (There was one dog
    that I saw but he was only deployed in the front yard.)

    Fourth. The
    Franklin Street address where the suspect was finally apprehended was
    substantially closer to the site of the early morning shootout on Friday than
    our home was but was apparently outside the zone of specific focus by the some
    10,000 law enforcement personnel who descended on Watertown yesterday. I wonder greatly how, despite this overwhelming police
    presence, it took a citizen report to identify the location of the sole
    terrorist suspect. This is particularly significant given the fact that
    it was reported that there was blood visible on the boat where the terrorist was
    finally found.

    Fifth. Who killed the MIT
    police officer? It remains my understanding that it was probably not the
    terrorists. And yet, if this understanding is correct, the news media have said
    nothing that I have seen about the ongoing hunt for a cold blooded cop killer.

    Beyond these disturbing images and facts, the overwhelming impression
    that I am left with is of an outsized inadequately coordinated response. It also
    appears that a great deal of yesterday’s events hinged on two things which the
    billions of dollars spent of para-military anti-terrorist armaments have not
    funded: Good luck and vigilant citizens. I worry greatly that this kind of
    massive and overwhelming military response could, in a different situation with
    more savvy terrorists, actually endanger the lives of citizens it is designed to
    protect.

    • Jack1234

      Shelter in Place became something else on that Friday, and I don’t recall it being what FEMA promoted it as. In video below citizens of America were ordered out of their house because they were in the basement looking out of their windows and it seemed “suspicious”. But FEMA instructions clearly state to seek shelter in a basement. Someone put music to this video but without the music you should hear how these people were being screamed at. SMH!

      In regards to Collier being killed, I have also wondered if it was used to incite mass anger among law enforcement and basically send them on a witch hunt. When people are scared they’re submissive but when people are angry they are ruthless. Just my opinion.

      • olball coach

        A couple of minutes before Collier was shot and reports “officer down”, dispatch received a call from a concerned citizen wondering if there was a disturbance and why there was an officer sitting up curb directly in front of Strata 32 (Building corner of Vasser and Main). Dispatch did not have a reason for her – he brushed her off and never checked with Collier to find out why he was there. I think it was a matter of wrong place at wrong time – 7/11 suspect was moving quickly up Vasser (as witnessed) turned the corner on to Main and was surprised by the officers car on the walk way – probably panicked thinking LE was on to him and shot the officer, stole his gun, then ditched it – and then proceeded down Main passing in front of the Marriot – again as witnessed.
        LE was simply going on instincts on this – initially suspected the brothers – because that was the purpose of the earlier press conference and distribution of the video and photos of them at the Marathon – smoke them out – do something dumb.
        And then by grace of God or damned good planning “Danny” falls out of the sky.

  • Jack1234

    “The remaining suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings has recovered enough to walk and assured his parents in a phone conversation that he and his slain brother were innocent, their mother told The Associated Press on Thursday.”
    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/father-man-fbi-shot-claims-his-son-was-executed

  • elizabeth

    Hi Russ, I will comment on the below questions, as I worked at MIT and currently work one street away from what is reported the location of the murder of the young MIT Officer–the Tsarnaev brothers home was on a street a short walk from MIT. They would have been extremely familiar with the area. Also, I often saw MIT police parked on the sidewalk-this would not be unusual at all. I was not aware of any shortcut to avoid any red light, but it is possible. It is also possible he was just there as a presence on campus and it was common to see this. Those suspects would certainly have known that MIT police sit in cars late at night and are armed. If in fact the officer had some device to lock his firearm –which I expect is the case, especially on a liberal college campus–the whole scenario seems entirely plausible. Just thought you could use this info/context from a local. Also, it does not surprise me that MIT is not happy to have journalists approaching people on campus and that they are referring you to the official investigators. So, I would not agree that makes anything sound suspicious. Academia is its own little world. Hope this helps!
    [Why Would the Brothers Have Been on the MIT Campus?
    Nobody seems to know. Would they have been there because they knew they would find an officer sitting in his car between buildings? If not, it means the brothers randomly passed through this unlikely area and happened upon Collier in his unlikely spot, snuck up behind him, killed him, and then—took nothing.]
    [...We don’t know whether the Tsarnaev brothers did kill Collier, although it would be easy to assume they did. Still, we have trouble coming up with an easy motive or a logical reason for them to have been at that place at that time.] It makes total sense–they lived adjacent to the campus.

    • Carol Newquist

      No, it still doesn’t make total sense. None at all. If they had the wherewithall and motivation to pull off the bombing, they would have had access to a bevy of firearms already. That makes sense, not strolling over to MIT to shoot a campus police officer to take his lonely gun regardless of the proximity of their home to the campus and their familiarity with it. This tells me you probably believe in Santa Claus as well. How old are you? Do you still believe priests don’t rape little boys and girls? Politicians and public officials would never lie? Get a grip. That’s what all of them do best. That’s their job. What we’re told they actually do is their disguise. They’re legalized predators protected by intractable institutions that may or may not have once stood for something decent but certainly don’t any longer. Grow up.

      Great work, Russ. Keep it up. You are an example to follow.

    • Jack1234

      Based on what media says, the brothers killed Collier for his gun but never got it. However, there is further evidence out, not being reported of course, that Collier’s gun was missing when police arrived on scene and found a short time later nearby. Is this the kind of information that “Academia” keeps in it’s own little world?

    • public_servant_watch

      “If UR not careful, newspapers will have U hating people who are being oppressed & loving people who are doing the oppressing.” -Malcolm X

    • Dianne Foster

      “Why would the brothers have been on the MIT campus”? Why indeed, even if they lived nearby (or anyway their mother did when she was living in Cambridge)? This was a problem for the scenario people, because not only did 7-11 executives come forward to deny their having robbed the Mass Ave Central Square store, the photo of one of them in a 7-11 was not a 7-11. That’s one book-end. The other bookend is about a carjacking on a street I am sure you are familiar with in Central Square, Third Street. This was asserted initially as the carjacking street. Except it wasn’t. Why say that? It provides the second book-end to put them at the Stata Center – where I have it on good authority nobody ever parks up where Sean memorial is today. Nobody. Not since they finished the buildings there – the Koch building for instance. The person who scratched his or her head about it practically lives in a lab on that area (though was not there in the night in question).

      The set-up of Sean being killed by the brothers is just that, a way to rile up the police in the narrative – they are not just going after terrorist bombing suspects, but the killers of a brother officer. It’s part of the story. You ought to see this:

      http://www.cityofboston.gov/news/default.aspx?id=5837

  • GabrlaMA

    I am replying to earlier discussion of 4-15 photos and surveillance cameras at marathon. In the affidavit by agent
    Genck, U.S. v. Dzhorkhar, Dzhorkhar is seen stopping and standing directly in front of Forum restaurant at aprox. 2:45:15 p.m.” with his “back to the camera.” Genck states “He can be seen apparently slipping his knapsack onto the ground” (Remember camera is fixed on the back side.) Note the word apparently. At this point investigators rely on the photo taken from the opposite side of the street. I decide they are using both the video and photo to come to the conclusion of the backpack being set down as the video may not be clear enough on its own. Dzhorkhar remains here for approx. 4 minutes. When first bomb goes off, Agent Genck states “Virtually every head turns east and stares in that direction in apparent bewilderment and alarm.” Genck adds this judgmental word flavor towards Dzhorkhar as the bomber. Again, recall that the video camera is filming from the back. “Bomber two virtually alone among the individuals in front of the restaurant appears calm.” He understates Dzhohkhar glancing to the east, too.
    Dzhorkhar may not have set the back pack down at all. Or he set it down and then lifted it up again to his shoulder. All FBI videos show him carrying the pack on right shoulder. Perhaps his preferred shoulder and/or because he is right handed. In the photo of him and others running away from the explosion, he may still have the pack on his right shoulder. Only the empty left
    shoulder is seen in the image. The right shoulder looks slightly slouched as it would be when either carrying a bag on the
    shoulder or in the hand. In this complaint,investigators are setting the probable cause. I find other leading and judgmental words in the Genck affidavit.

    • olball coach

      Interesting…check out the link below – scroll down to the pik overlooking the bombing scene 2. At the bottom of the screen you a video camera. I would think this one would provide the best angle to see him “slip the bag” off of his shoulder. I had not assumed from the complaint the video was behind – do you have any other clues that there might be one behind him? The problem with the rooftop angle is that the mail box blocks the view of where that pack was laid. The photo, at ground level across the street provides the view LE is providing as proof.

      http://totallycoolpix.com/2013/04/boston-marathon-bombings/
      With regards to the picture above – there is a debate raging on several serious blog sites as whether that thing is shopped or not. Supposedly there is technology that determines this. I for one like to know if that technology has been applied to the earlier pik discussed. Of the piks seen of the millions taken – THAT ONE looks the most fake. But that is my opinion.

      • olball coach

        one other thing – I have mentioned it here before – but I have read that JT has some “gimp” to his walk due to one leg being shorter than the other – or some such disability.

        • Jack1234

          I would encourage someone here to try and find the photo of Dzhokhar taking a picture with his phone at the marathon. I have seen the photo but it was early on and it was crystal clear. I didn’t save it and now it’s nowhere to be found. I have searched high and low and cannot find it. I would just like to see it again and bounce it off of everything else we have available. I’m thinking it was scrubbed from the net because it would show him with a backpack whereas the criminal complaint states he didn’t have it when he was taking a picture.

        • olball coach

          I have periodically skimmed google for images – and cant remember that one in particular. Initially, REDDIT had the best images, but if your not a member you dont have access to that data. btw: REDDIT had some awesome threads that night people were on from all over the world including people on Laurel and Dexter and surrounding streets. If anyone is a member or has access to that data – that would be a good place to look.

  • Carol Newquist

    So let’s go with some hypothetical implications of Russ’s article. I’m not saying this is how it is, or was, but it’s a possible implication, and explanation of, the evidence.

    Collier was executed by those who perpetrated this event for the very reasons Russ has stated….to engage an angry, ruthless paramilitarized police force and send them on a hunt for blood. If this was a false flag, like the Kennedy assassination and so much more, we now know that such operations are highly contained with each participant only having their small part to play and most of them not even knowing what their part means as it relates to the larger picture because they never see the larger picture until after the fact, and when they do figure it out after the fact, what could they do anyway? They only know the small part they played. For everything else, they are going against the grain like the rest of us fools.

    Execute Collier and pin it on the patsies of the Beantown Bombings. Great point Russ makes about it looking like it’s from the same playbook they used for the Kennedy assassination, meaning the Tippet shooting. If you think about it, if true, this is an absolute in your face to REAL investigators of events like this. It is pure, unadulterated hubris. It’s as though they’re saying without words “yeah, that’s right, we’re using the same tried and true playbook because it works and there’s not a god-damned thing any of you can do about it. Have fun sleuthing it out whilst we plan the next one, and the next one and the next one. We create the realities while you try to figure it all out. Have fun because we sure are.”

    Why Collier as opposed to any other officer? Who knows, but one thing we do know is they like to kill many birds with one stone, so maybe someone somewhere considered this guy expendable and he fit the bill as a sacrificial lamb for this job. He was a problem to someone and so his death served two purposes for the people responsible for planning this. Same goes for Tippet, no doubt. I wonder if anyone ever investigated that angle? Why Tippet and the two birds with one stone possibility?

    • Jack1234

      Operations are the real deal, they are drawn up just like a playbook. When a plan goes off course it is swiftly adjusted to cover up the mistake and move on. In earlier comments I have questioned why it’s not being addressed that the owner of a gym said Collier volunteered at the same gym Tamerlan used to go to, but he stated it was doubtful they ever crossed paths. There has been no further talk of their possible connection. Media just portrays it as cold blooded killing. I think they knew each other and I think Tamerlan confided in him which resulted in Colliers death.

    • olball coach

      The scenario you paint is certainly plausible, but must open gates of conspiracy wide and introduces many more actors, story lines that I am not sure anyone can manage.

      I transcribed police scanners of MIT, Boston and Cambridge from that night beginning 10 mins before Collier was shot to about 3 am. I heard officer Sean call his own “officer down” I heard his own mates respond in anguish to what they came upon. I heard the whole thing unfold – in real time by the officers in the field. This is what I can conclude.

      A couple of minutes before Collier was shot and reports “officer down”, dispatch received a call from a concerned citizen wondering if there was a disturbance and why there was an officer sitting up curb directly in front of Strata 32 (Building corner of Vasser and Main). Dispatch did not have a reason for her – he brushed her off and never checked with Collier to find out why he was there. I think it was a matter of wrong place at wrong time. The 7/11 suspect (5’11” 200 lbs, dark clothes cowboy hat) was witnessed as moving quickly up Vasser. This witness (confirmed the 7/11 id) was called in by an officer with dog fanning out following Colliers shooting. He also reports finding Colliers missing gun.
      Back to the suspect. I am presuming he turned the corner on to Main and was surprised by the Colliers car perched on the walk way – He probably panicked thinking LE was on to him and shot the officer from behind, stole his gun, he must have retreated to Vasser because thats where the gun was ditched (15 Vasser Street) and then found by the officer. The suspect turned again and proceed down Main Street where he was spotted passing in front of the Marriot – again as witnessed (again confirming the 7/11 id). Another officer on foot, discovered this witness and called this in as well – by this time detectives were descending on to and MIT and the officer was told to hold the witness until the detective arrived.
      Calls went out for several sets of officers to check out the Red Line(?) I presume that is bus or train lines somewhere in the vicinity of the Marriot or in that direction.
      Now – arriving officers to the scene were quick to notice two surveillance cameras overlooking Strata 32 and called in they were going to upstairs to get a look. Scanner chatter continued directing arriving officers, setting up a perimeter, closing off streets etc., About 30 minutes later the detective – Office “19” tells dispatch “they” have an id on the suspect of the MIT shooting. He states BOLO on for 5’11” 200, “mexican” (exact words) dark clothes, light or white cowboy hat – wanted in connection with the 7/11 robbery and the MIT shooting. This was repeated by dispatch several times over the next hour.
      I have posted down thread a piece by resident of Watertown who wrote that police had informed his neighbors basically what I have outlined above.
      INMO – LE was simply going on instincts on this – they initially suspected the brothers – because that was the purpose of the earlier press conference and distribution of the video and photos of them at the Marathon – smoke them out – do something dumb.
      And then by grace of God or damned good planning “Danny” falls out of the sky.

    • Dianne Foster

      Was Collier a problem? The backstory on MIT was that after the death by alleged suicide in January, 2013, of Aaron Swartz (who was facing prosecution for downloading files from MIT without paying for them, looking at a prison sentence of up to 30 years they said), someone phoned in a report of an armed man in the corridors of MIT. This shut down the Institute. Faculty and staff were told to lock their doors. It then turned out to be a hoax allegedly perpetrated by someone sympathetic with Swartz’s mission to open up archives to the public for free. Interestingly, the drill-like aspect was there – sudden emergency, shelter in place.

      Collier had a reputation for getting to know students and going on hiking trips with them. Again, all of this could be legendary. But the idea that he was inconvenient — I wonder. Didn’t seem to fit the bill of someone that independent, but still. Swartz was against internet censorship laws too. Also, it seems that something like Occupy Boston might have set in place the campaign to meld the Boston population with their first responders as “good guys” – Occupy Boston triggered Boston Strong. It’s the answer to the problem for the financial district occupation. Immediately, Fidelity Bank, MIT and several others had high production value posters saying “Boston Strong.” At his funeral, Elizabeth Warren uttered the words “Collier Strong, Boston Strong.” It is an anti-change campaign, deeply fascistic. And get this: the Democrats are running it! How cool is that? Like the post-Bobby Kennedy assassination Democratic convention in Chicago, 1968 where “the whole world is watching” – and the cops are busting skulls. Only this is quieter. There will be no more Occupy Boston. There will be no internet neutrality.

      • olball coach

        Your comparison is creepy interesting. What do you know about the defense team? My strictly amatuerish, but reasonably thorough research of what is available for the amatuers to pick through has turned up more than a few anamolies and outright contradictions (I have some time on my hands). The picture analysis alone leaves prosecution vulnerable to a competent defense strategy and I am sure there was more in the “public” realm before LE flushed it. I’d bet more has come in, however. Further, timelines are not matching up to scanner feeds, several public videos are at odds with the “official narrative” as written in the Feds criminal complaint. And if – and I understand its a mighty big IF, there was a screw-up from drill to reality – and the rest of this has been a scramble to stay ahead of the story and cover up tracks as best you can – then a competent defense is going to destroy the case against. Reasonable doubt by a mile.
        My fear, to draw another comparison, is that the defense gets compromised, or goes into fetal position like Sirhan Sirhan’s defense did with faced with overwhelming odds and unbelievable public outcry. I am sure that’s why there has been such a frothy whipping up of public anger demonizing the brothers, the family and Muslims. But who knows maybe they have over played their hand?

        • Jack1234

          I agree with you 100%. The smear campaign against the brothers has been outlandish. Even when friends in Boston heard about the boat confession there was an astounding “Yeah right”. I have tried to find evidence of them being guilty of everything but have only been able to find factual evidence leaning more towards innocence.

        • TycheSD

          I worry that defense attorney Judy Clarke, although viewed as a miracle-worker for getting plea deals for terror clients to avoid the death penalty, may just have that as her main goal – avoiding the death penalty for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.

      • Carol Newquist

        Great stuff, Diane. I share many, if not all, of your sentiments. It is amazing, or maybe not, that the heavy hand of the rising militarized police state has been played out of the “Left” more skillfully than it has been out of the “Right”. It really is masterful. I sight to behold. One simple slogan, Hope, was a toxic paralytic and blinding injection.

        What is peculiar about the Collier murder is that it was obviously a playbook execution….a calling card, if you will. Shots to the back of the head. Sure, police officers are killed in the line of duty, but not like this unless there are dirty dealings. We know it wasn’t the Tsarnaev bros because they left the gun. It’s not some common criminal because common criminals don’t generally sneak up and shoot cops in the back of the head execution style. It’s highly plausible this was purposefully done by professionals as a planned execution for the reasons Russ states. Perhaps Collier was chosen because it would achieve maximum outrage both in the community at large and the fraternity of police precisely because he was such an all-around great guy. He fit the bill as the perfect victim from a publicity standpoint. You have to admit, he makes a great billboard. Norman Rockwell is blushing.

        Also, the political machinery is ready, willing and able to capitalize on any event in real-time regardless of whether said machinery was involved in the perpetration of that event or not. In otherwords, we don’t even need a conspiracy to underscore the fact that they are perpetually in a cui bono position for any and all tragedies without lifting a finger to set said tragedies in motion. It’s like picking low hanging fruit for them at this point. As you say, they’ve been doing it since the 60’s at least, and the rudiments of this over-arching strategy of tragic exploitation dates back to the advent of civilization, no doubt.

        • olball coach

          Since the two of you jumped in a few days ago – I have resisted the grand conspiracy because no one has done more to discredit alternative inquiry than A Jones and his ilk. That is classic counter intelligence, managable and convenient when you need it to turn heads and attention. And so I try to stay within the bounds of what is available.

          However, having said that – as I was writing my response regarding what I think happened to officer Collier – a horrendous idea crept in.

          5’11” 200 lb “mexican” dark clothes and a light or white Cowboy hat – this image popped into my mind. Think they’d fuck with us that way?

        • Jack1234

          Olball Coach, let’s just say you aren’t the only one who thought about that Cowboy hat. It came to mind for me too. I wouldn’t be surprised by anything at this point. I do remember hearing that FBI paid him a visit to his house after the bombing. Why would they do that if he was just an innocent bystander?

        • olball coach

          apologies Russ – sometimes I write like a coach.

          I have avoided the grand conspiracies – because nothing discredits alternative journalism and inquiry more – than “stuff” churned out daily by the likes of A Jones and his ilk. It is classic counter intell easy to manage and convenient when you need heads to turn away – if only for a moment. Not saying this is your intent – saying – I am content to filter and pick through what is available and let the data “speak.” There is certainly enough debris lying all around these events that even an amatuer like myself can clearly hear another tune than one being sung by MSM and LE.

          Anyway – while I was writing my repsonse to what I think happened at MIT – I had a horrendous thought.

          5’11” 200 lb “Mexican”, dark clothes, light or white cowboy hat. The image that came to mind is below. Think they would “mess” with the public this way? It makes for great mythology, but geez….

      • olball coach

        If I may, I am going to respond to your post way down thread here. The housing situation was never completely clear to me. JT had a dorm room 30 miles (?) miles away on Mass Dart campus – but was seen in Watertown frequently with and without TT. Ms T/Russel – we find her at her parents home R.I. and according to neighbors of TT on Norfolk they never saw her. Someone, either the Globe or the Harold got the jump on getting piks inside the home and it looked like two college guys lived there. I have read where TT took care of his daughter during the day while his wife worked.
        So, its plausible there was another residence – but MSM journalists dont seem to interested.

      • DM

        I assume you are aware that as early as 2008, or earlier, DHS had earmarked the Boston marathon for an emergency drill of a terror attack? The Harvard Kennedy School journal carried an article on this in 2008.

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  • olball coach

    Hey all – check this photo out. I found it digging around a backwater alternative site and they had bootlegged it off REDDIT.
    I am not sure if you can see it or maybe blow it up to get it visible – but the red arrow is pointing to the only guy I saw that day with a white baseball cap on backwards – cant make out much else. BUT the location is intriguing – after accounting for the 4 year difference I figure he is just past Chicago Uno Grill at 731 Bolyston – North of the Forum (closer to the finish line)after the both bombs went off – as you can see by the smoke. If that is Johar then this photo contradicts the record of motions set forth in the criminal complaint. There is no way of knowing for sure, I bet – but it is reasonable doubt – IMO. I’ll see if I can something to fix pik better.

    • olball coach

      Oh this came out okay – I have zoomed to 150% and I can see it. He is walking directly into the Forum.

      • olball coach

        Okay – Here is an FBI photo showing him on the phone. He is standing behind a blond women in a blue or light blue top. This matches the goofy FBI pik of him walking away with his nose way up. The black guy standing behind him is in both piks. Now, the Richards family pik (with JT included walking away) shows the back of a blond womens head and she has a light blue top. This women, as is the black guy, or JT, or Richard family are all not in the NBC roof shot taken supposedly at seconds before the bomb went off. I found an uncut version of that pik – and you can see down to a few feet beyond the edge of the Atlantic Fish Company and JT is not standing there either – nor do any of these people in the FBI pik. Conclusion: the Family pik is probably legit – but it is taken at a considerably different time as the one NBC says was taken seconds before the blast. Therefore, the brown bag inside the Crate and Barrel bag is the logical candidate.

        • olball coach

          I just now see – that blackened hump on the right is most likely the mail box. Pik is awfully distorted by the telephoto.

        • Missie Baker

          In all the photos I’ve seen of the aftermath of second bomb site, I’ve never seen one with blast marks on the sidewalk (similar to what was supposedly the blast mark on Watertown street from lobbed IED) The device’s fireball captured on tape (the very clear shot shows it past the Forum’s outdoor patio–maybe) should have seared the white vinyl/leather Forum seating, but doesn’t appear to have??? I find I’m confused by the photographic “evidence.”

        • olball coach

          I think the reason a blast pattern on the ground is difficult to see – is that the blast occured behind the tree nearest the mailbox on a landscape grate which is a darker color to begin with and because of the amount of blood spilled on the cement surrounding the grate. The best your going to get is a pattern of blood and debris.

          Pictures of the actual blast appear to be distorted (things bunched together) by the telephoto lens used to capture the wide angle desired. So, the site lines are somewhat skewed. The best I saw of site 2 was a video from the finish line at ground level – the blast looked like a snow cone with its bottom chopped off half way up – The tree was burnt as you can see from the photos – and was eventually removed.

          Check these out

          http://totallycoolpix.com/2013/04/boston-marathon-bombings/

          http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianjdamico/8652932029/in/photostream/

        • Missie Baker

          Thank you for the links and comments, and that was fast, sorry it took so long for my reply. I guess I’m just trying to understand how such a low-grade explosive device, which caused almost no physical impact, caused a death and so many significant soft-tissue and bone injuries (as characterized by the medical personnel.) I believe I saw at least two plate glass panels broken out (Forum & Starbucks,) and then there was the one barricade bent by the force of the explosion around the green post box, indicative of location of the IED. I’ve since read (being no munitions expert!) that the force of a blast, bounced off concrete or walls, can be multiplied by up to 9 times. (More frightening is the fact that bomb witnesses, seemingly unharmed, months or years later, can drop dead from the blast effects–can’t recall term for it.) Compared to the first bomb site, this almost seemed like a different type of device but that wouldn’t make sense. (thanks again, I too have saved some horrific posted pics of second site from the web in efforts to answer questions, but I’m sure you already have them, and in truth they are too awful to be posted here)

        • DM

          Another detail that disturbs me is the absence of any sign of nails or ball bearings on the people after impact. No marks on clothing…

  • loulou90

    you probably want to take a look at this – deputy director of FEMA’s presentation from 2008 on using boston marathon as planned mass casualty event for training purposes

    http://www.integratedtrainingsummit.org/presentations/2008/main_training_summit/course_18_-_tale_of_two_cities_and_the_running_of_a_planned_mass_casualty_event_-_serino_richard.pdf

  • GabrlaMA

    To oball coach’s question a few days ago asking of other clues that the Forum Restaurant camera is positioned behind Dzhorkhar, I rely on U.S. Criminal Complaint, Surveillance Evidence. One camera is located at corner of Gloucester and Boylston at Whiskeys. On FBI.gov. this is the camera and video used where the brothers turn the corner and walk east.
    A second video camera farther east on Boylston just before Fairfield cross street shows them walking. Photos are also
    taken from across the street in this area. The third camera is a “security camera affixed above the doorway of the Forum Restaurant 755 Boylston” on the next block.
    The Forum camera points slightly west towards Fairfield.
    In its range, the camera films the brothers one half block away standing at approx. 2:41 p.m. I connect photos of brothers standing together and watching the marathon as taken around here and just before in the area of video camera 2. At approx. 2:42 p.m.Tamerlan walks ahead. He passes in front of Forum camera at approx. 2:42.15 p.m. At 2:45 p.m. Dzhorkhar moves from the standing location. He arrives at Forum restaurant at approx. 2:45.15. He stands with other people watching the marathon “with his back to the camera.” Agent Genck states “He can be seen apparently slipping his knapsack onto the ground.” A photograph taken from the opposite side of street is applied as evidence because a backpack is on the ground.
    Genck states he observed video and photographic footage from a number of different viewpoints and angles including from directly across the street. They may have seen video from Lord and Taylor. The camera is far off-center from the front of the Forum across the street and on the roof of the two story building. As all cameras are business owned, I predict
    video surrounds their own property area and entrances. The FBI.gov video shows example of how film focuses immediately around the building and off a bit into the streets.
    In summary, investigators have used as evidence the Forum video, the off-center photo with pack on ground, and the David Green photo with Dzhorkhar and people running away and his pack not visible. The surveilance video by itself is not reliable enough. As I said earlier, in the Green photo, Dzhorkhor may still have his pack on his right shoulder or in hand but not caught in the picture. Even if video is presented to show Dzhorkhar placing the pack down and leaving it, this is not evidence that he placed a bomb. Investigators have used information of Tamerlan by FBI, racial profiling effects of Dzhorkhar’s face in the crowd, and the three image sources to make the decision of pursuit.
    There are no more secret videos to reveal as law enforcement flails to the public. The surveillance in the complaint is the best they have got. The video setting down the backpack is not the smoking gun. Law enforcement’s focus now is to ingrain in the public how we are supposed to react to the images when they release them, and as we wait, our
    imaginations are encouraged to have fear of the “terrorist” and the frightening placement of the bag onto the ground. These
    photos and video are stated in U.S. vs. Dzhorkhar Tsarnaev to proceed in prosecution.

    • olball coach

      Excellent post. Now, how does the attached utube video of a picture having been taken at 2:44, fit into or distort the time line? I am assuming the time stamp on the photographers I phone is accurate.

      • Missie Baker

        I believe you are referring to the photo snapped of DT by the Florida man, and subsequently aired on WESH2 TV? I’d like to understand that one as well–it made me a little sick.. But first I must commend the poster for such amazingly intricate detailed analysis and the post. May I also ask, how does the Irish runner photo showing DT (and poss. TT) in the background fit it? It may have been being taken around 670’s Boylston (based on mailbox, but background doesn’t match,) and seven minutes before the first explosion? The Irish runner ‘passed over the finish line seconds later’ has been cited in several articles. 7 minutes would make this snap captured at 2:42 or thereabouts. Red herring?

        • olball coach

          If its the Irish runner I am thinking about that picture (including the two mail boxes) is taken in front of 883/867 Bolyston moments after they turned the corner from Gloucester. According to the FBI they turned the corner at 2:38. As described above they lingered for some time – before moving on at 2:42.

        • Missie Baker

          Yes, you are right, even though the image of the Irish runner appears to be missing the black lamp post visible on google maps. The text accompanying the photo evidently was drafted for most chilling impact! I withdraw my question.

        • Missie Baker

          Oll Coach: I had always assumed the damning “backpack on sidewalk” photo you are working on ID’ing crowd around was taken by an “impartial” surveillance camera across the street on the building…but instead it came from a bystander’s cellphone? Was it a video, and that’s why it was so blurry? Said photo is unusual in ways you’ve touched on….are you planning to release your analysis you alluded to earlier…I’ve been waiting. (I’ve also wondered about the second govt-released photo of DT. With all the runners on the street, who w/be shooting a full-face photo of a stranger on a cell on the sidewalk? As you state, it is a difficult angle to get all the elements in single frame.)

    • Jack1234

      Great post and observation!

    • Ruthie Truthie

      Hello,….. the brother’s backpacks did not even look like the one they said the bombs were in……and by the way, if they have a video of him putting down his backpack….why haven’t they showed it to us? Oh, I know,… it would jeopardize the investigation.

    • DM

      What about the young man who is seen in the video of the first bomb site shot from an upper story window on the same side of the street – he is clearly the only person who gets up after the blast, separates himself from the crowd, and hightails it out of the area. No one else does this. In earlier crowd photos he is seen with a backpack.

      ALSO -you say “Investigators have used information of Tamerlan by FBI, racial profiling effects of Dzhorkhar’s face in the crowd, and the three image sources to make the decision of pursuit.” But how could the FBI provide information on Tamerlan, when they said they needed the public’s help to identify him in the picture?

      • olball coach

        In crowd shots before the blast – the dude your refering to was standing next to the girl who died – he is seen poking around on his phone or Ipad several times. Also – he is later seen in photos standing at one of the first aid tents getting first aid.

        FBI (Mueller, May 18 – Senate HS commtitte) admits they had a full file on TT prior to the bomb blast – but gave up zero information to local police nor the regional Terrorism Task – comprised of Boston PD, Several FBI, Homeland Security, and other state officials. Apparently, the info was classifed high up on the food chain.

        • DM

          Well, so who and where is that guy and why hasn’t anybody in law enforcement or the media asked the question?? Especially since he was seen standing next to the girl who died!

          I don’t think it excuses the FBI to say the info was high up on the food chain, do you? It’s one thing to reserve information but they effectively lied to the public by asking for help in identifying them. That is nothing more than a hoax in my book.
          We know about several hoaxes – this, the lie that Collier’s gun was in its holster, the 7-11 robbery, etc.

          EITHER the FBI or whoever is pulling the strings WANTS us to fall into chaos over these things, or they are defiantly showing us that there is nothing we can do about it, or both.

  • jamesmadison

    One question I have been asking which I think really outs the lie to
    the whole lockdown thing is: why didn’t they put the bloodhounds on the
    trail of JT if he fled on foot, and catch him in 20 minutes? Once the
    dogs have a scent, you cannot beat them. According to the official
    story, JT fled a vehicle which would have had scent all over it. There
    is absolutely no way the “manhunt” would have lasted a night and an
    entire day. The bloodhounds would find him as fast as they can yank
    their handlers along.

    We know Mass. and New England have the hounds, detailed here: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/350453

    They can bring in Blackhawks to scare everybody but they could bring in “Holly?”

    • RuthieTruthie

      If they would have brought out the bloodhounds, they would have found him very quickly, then they would not have had a reason to have their Marshall Law Shut Down Exercise, would they? That’s one of the reasons for these Boston Bombings. It was just an exercise for Marshall Law….and it was went very well! Look at the masses that did not question “How could one 19 year old escape all that Military, Swat, FBI, Police, CIA, etc., etc,.” I read from a reliable source that 10,000 law enforcement members were used and it cost $333 million a day. I did not double or triple check those figures but what ever the cost ,you know,……it was not cheap! And some children in this county go hungry.

    • Chris

      They did use the dogs, but supposedly there were too many people in the area for them to pick of his scent. Which, like so much else related to the bombing, I find very hard to believe.

      • guest

        there was a discussion on the scanner when they had him cornered in the boat about which dogs they were going to use. It was all bizarre that and they kept him in the boat for a very long time.

        • DM

          I listened to the scanner and did not hear anything like that. I did hear the Boston cops telling all the other cops in the area to steer clear of the boat area and allow the feds to go in.

      • jamesmadison

        Bloodhounds pick up the scent of the single person you are looking for through a known source. Dzhokhar’s scent was in the vehicle he fled, which is where they would have started if they wanted to run him down. Bloodhounds would be useless if they could not distinguish one person’s scent from another. There are always lots of people in a chase area.

      • sean drake

        Ummmmmm the military and jackboot paramilitaries to find a teenaged suspect??? So what’s with the desert fatigues and crapping on the 4th Amendment?

      • DM

        I did not see any dogs in any of the Watertown photos. If they were there they would have suffered a lot when the police let loose with barrages of gunfire and flashbangs.

  • ozymandias

    jamesmadison,
    Not using dogs to track DT is exactly the glaring, unexplained oddity that yanked me into this issue. DT was found 4 blocks from where he abandoned the car, and his scent was everywhere. Why no dogs to follow his short trail? Just doesn’t make any sense.
    Also, check this out from the New York Times:

    Terrorist Plots, Hatched by the FBI
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/terrorist-plots-helped-along-by-the-fbi.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0
    Did the FBI set up a fake bombing – to ensnare Tamerlan and make themselves look like terrorist-nabbing heroes – that went very, very wrong????

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  • Suze O

    There are a couple of things I have heard about the officer wounded at the scene of the fight that killed the elder Tsarnaev brother. One was that he may have been wounded by friendly fire. I also heard that the wound was so placed that it hit an artery and that the man “bled out”. I have no idea how long it takes to completely bleed out and how much risk someone would have taken to get to him, but when he was finally taken to the hospital, he was given an almost total transfusion and revived. That means that he was almost certainly dead by the time he got to the hospital, and was “brought back”. Perhaps that is why he doesn’t remember the incident. Recent events are saved in a short-term part of the memory, and if something happens to disrupt its transfer to the long-term memory, it is completely lost.

    Another oddity is the Todachev story. Rachel Maddow carried this story. It seems that Todachev was signing a confession to the killing of 3 men a few years ago, one of whom was a friend of Tamerlan Tsarnaev. Marijuana was found sprinkled all over their bodies and no money was taken. Only since the bombing did Tsarnaev’s name come up as a suspect. Todachev was also an athlete, and it was speculated that he and Tsarnaev together could have overcome all three of the men. However, the story from there seems to imply that Todachev became annoyed with the pressure from the FBI, (there were several of them there with him) and lunged for a weapon (the story keeps changing, first it was a gun, then a knife, then some metal bar, etc). He was shot at least 6 or 7 times, so I’m not sure only one agent reacted. Someone (a friend?) managed to take pictures of Todachev’s body after the autopsy and sent them to his parents overseas. They had a news conference and wanted an explanation. Maddow showed a clip of the family presenting the photos of their dead son, showing several bullet wounds. The FBI, after changing their story several times, is now saying nothing at all.

    • RuthieTruthie

      There is video of eldest Tsarneaev alive, standing stripped naked and being put into a police car. His autopsy showed 6 or seven bullet wounds and three cuts to his torso, one about 6 or 7 inches long to the left side of his chest. They said this cut was done to massage his heart.

      • DM

        That’s not just a cut, it looks more like a large opening, and it could have been used to remove his heart. There was no indication in the doctor’s report that he massaged the heart.

    • DM

      As if the FBI did not frisk the guy for weapons before interrogating him!!! I’m sure!

      There are local stories of the triple murder that make more sense; a local councilman who is reportedly corrupt could have something to do with it. Tamerlan stopped all drugs and alcohol some time ago; one of the dead was a very close friend and there is no suggestion that Tamerlan ever was involved in drug dealing. There is no real connection between Todachev and the murders either, and it is not clear that he was intending to sign any confession. He did convey his fears of the FBI to his wife and a friend however. They did not allow him to have a lawyer present either.

  • olball coach

    I’ve been studying photos of site 2 and was matching faces in the crowd to people who were injured when I ran into this article below. I am speechless. I’ve reprinted the relevant part and provided the site address. This was published on the 23rd the same day Martin Ricard was buried.

    Boston Marathon bombings: Stories of the Victims

    By Wilson Andrews, Published: April 23, 2013 at 11:03 pmE-mail the writer

    Aaron Hern, 11

    The gaping shrapnel wound from the second bomb blast at the Boston Marathon that cut deep into 11-year-old Aaron Hern’s left thigh bone is healing. After nine days, a rough patch in intensive care, two surgeries and well-wishing visits from no less than First Lady Michelle Obama and players from the Oakland Athletics baseball team, Hern was released from Boston Children’s Hospital.

    Though he has thick staples all up and down his leg, from the outside, the thoughtful, athletic kid from Martinez, Calif., is beginning to recover. He’s been up and about in a wheelchair and on crutches, and doctors have promised a full recovery for a boy who loves to play football, baseball and basketball and runs a sub-six-minute mile.

    It’s what’s going on inside that worries his mother.

    Aaron happened to be standing at the finish-line barricades next to eight-year-old Martin Richard. The boys didn’t know each other. But the same explosion that shredded Aaron’s leg tore through Martin and killed him. For several terrifying minutes after the blast, Aaron lay alone on the sidewalk, blood seeping from his leg, staring at the small boy’s body.

    “You can’t take it away,” his mother, Katherine, said. “You wish you could take all those memories and visions away from him. And you can’t. He’s healing physically. The emotional is yet to be seen. When Aaron found out Martin didn’t make it, he was just very, very angry and sad.”

    Aaron had come to Boston with his father, Alan, and younger sister, Abby, 10, to cheer Katherine as she finished. On April 14, the day before the race, Katherine posted bright photos of Fenway Park on her Facebook page and asked friends: “Best pizza place in Boston?”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/liveblog/wp/2013/04/23/boston-marathon-bombings-stories-of-the-victims/

    • olball coach

      The Martin Story has become a myth. I cannot for the life of me understand why nor how the official narrative is so blatant in your face distorted. Before I ran across this story – I was beginning to wonder if there are actually two sets of pictures. The Richard family pictures and the FBI surveillance pictures appear taken earlier in the day when it was more overcast. The later sets of pictures taken by NBC, News statopms and most of the other piks posted are brighter and sunlight can be seen on faces and shadows on the ground.

      Something else I noticed – and I will post below – consider the FBI photos of JT on the cell phone and JT walking away. Consider the background. In the cell phone photo – there is a husky black guy in the background standing there on one side of the far left decorative column of the The Atlantic Fish Company.

      In the walking away photo – what appears to be the exact same pik of the black guy is there but its on the other side of the column. Notice, however the angle of the shot is almost exactly the same. There is no way you can take make that work given the layout of the restaurant. There is a large hedge about 4-5 feet high between the two restaurants. The angle is too tight to get the mail box, the blond women, the black guy and JT all in the same picture – with the black guy standing on both sides of the column. That is the biggest thing I see wrong with the two pictures, but there are more.

      • Missie Baker

        It’s an odd photo, isn’t it? (Column from the fish company is too close to the mailbox.) Do you think the short blonde woman wearing black sunglasses w/elbows on barricade is the same woman shown in the same location in middle photo above? Also, one of the reasons the middle photo looks odd to me is that DT is such a small guy–5’9″ and very slight. (& if that height was pulled from his Mass DL, he might actually only be 5’8″)

        • olball coach

          the blonde woman is the same – and her name is Roseann Sdoia. She lost the lower half of her right leg. I havent yet id’d the man she is standing next to. I have id’d about seven and maybe eight of those standing behind Ms Sdoia and to her right closest to the mailbox.

          I know he is listed as 5’9″. I agree he looks smaller and more frail than I originally thought.

      • GabrlaMA

        Observing detail on video of brothers at marathon. Did you notice they are dressed the same as in the CNN video of the bros. at the Waikru gym? The gym goes almost in a straight line riding the green T line to Boylston. After workout, they step off the T, walk down Gloucester for a nice walk at the marathon.
        I wonder.

        http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.html#/video/us/2013/05/31/dnt-feyerick-new-boston-brothers-video.cnn?iref=videosearch

        • olball coach

          I am pretty sure I read the video of them in the gym is 3 days before the bombing – and he TT looks like he needs to shave again – and JT looks stoned. He even ropes like he is a bit shakey.

    • Missie Baker

      OC: Enjoy reading your posts. This wounded boy’s father’s interview states his son ran ahead to stand by barricade with his friend–and he got away from him such that, dazed in the aftermath of the explosion, father didn’t realize he didn’t have him, and had to go back for him only to find him so terribly injured. (brave little boy) Aaron is little boy with elbow over the barricade, wearing his big watch (which shows up in the photo of him being helped by first responder.) Is the other young boy (in the gray hoodie on far side of dark-haired) papa’s older son, or the friend of little injured boy? There seems to be a missing young boy in the “famous” photo count? Gray hoodie uninjured boy is photographed twice more. Do you agree?

      • olball coach

        can you post the pik you are referring to – they are all running together in my mind right now?

        • Missie Baker

          Ollball coach: Have tried to post here but pics come out so small. You can find the four I’ve pulled off the web for this query at postimagesBB.tumblr.com Enter postimagesBB Seems to work. Warning: images are very graphic and sad.

        • olball coach

          postimagesBB – didnt work. Do one of us get this wrong?

        • Missie Baker

          http://postimagesbb.tumblr.com/

          (This link works on my laptop, but not on my i-pod?) No password needed now

        • olball coach

          That little boy is Martin’s brother (name escapes me). The little boy next to him is Aaron Hern (11) who was blown back away from the barrier and to the left – towards the Fish Restaurant – along with Martin, Jane and his mother. They landed in a heap. I believe they ended up there because that is were they were moving to after the first bomb went off. Aarons father is just behind the lady in the blue shirt/jacket and the guy in purple. You can see this is exactly where they were seperated.

        • olball coach

          I responded to another poster regarding the pictures and the Richard family.

          Okay I googled as you suggested and this is what I found.

          ” Two members of the Richard family were also seriously injured in the second of the two deadly bombings near the finish line of the 26.2-mile race…….
          The family of five had just gotten ice cream and were on the sidelines trying to identify friends running by, Rep. Stephen Lynch, a friend of the family for 25 years, told the Associated Press.
          After hearing the first blast, the Richards were scrambling over barriers to get to the street when the second bomb went off.
          Martin was killed — one of three people who died in the explosions that were described Tuesday by President Obama as an “act of terror.”

          you can see this was dated April 16th and 17th.

          http://www.nydailynews.com/new

          Please see this as well – I will comment on it later.

          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new
          You can see this reporter was sloppy calling it “returns-finish line…” when the article clearly pictures him in front of the Atlantic Fish Company and says he was injured by the second blast.

        • Missie Baker

          OllCoach: Would very much like to read those, but just checked, links are broken, do you have the original articles? BTW, I saw a story about the family, stating they were moving away from the first explosion and “unfortunately” ran right into the second explosion. I read it once and have never found it again. May have been pulled or replaced by this account. And I concur, gray hoodie is older brother, but Mr. Hern’s account was his son ran ahead of him to join his friend at the barricade–can’t recall if this was his taped interview or a reporter’s account. If accurate, where is young Hern’s friend?

        • Missie Baker

          OllCoach: And I believe little Jane ended up in the street, blown there by explosion (quite a long way, maybe she was the first over the barricade?) She was rescued by the off-duty fireman wearing red shirt in video. There’s a woman sitting next to her, stunned who seems unaware of the drama going on (understandably.) Do you think the victims were moved about (or moved on their own) after the explosion?

        • olball coach

          Here are the links:

          http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boy-killed-marathon-terror-attack-id-martin-richard-article-1.1317909

          and

          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2314945/Aaron-Hern-Boy-11-wounded-Boston-Marathon-blast-returns-finish-line.html

          From the picture you sent to me (Richards family photo) which is a bt wider than the one I had – I am fairly certain – that the boy on the end is Martins brother, David Yepez, Aaron Hern, Jane Richard etc.,

          I dont think that is Jane being carried away by the officer. Her jacket is green and black checkered pattern, whereas Janes, is solid green – and the shoes dont match. According to the latest Washington Post list of victims – there are several unidentified young children.

          20 secs earlier, Mr. Hern’s son was ahead of him and ran to the barrier. I surmise this by the accounts given above. And I have pretty much id’d everyone in the picture who was injured – the only one I cant – is the guy who looks an awfully lot like Allan Hern.

          Read the article – he didnt “know” Martin, I am thinking they met that day – and just pal’d around – as kids do.

          I have not read an accounting of the Richard family going over the barricade. I am just guessing from what I have read that if they were moving away from the explosion they would have moved back and to the left. Bill Richard is quoted in an early article that the tree save his daughters life absorbing some of the shrapnel.
          The group of friends from Stoneham – attempted exactly that and two got over before the explosion. J.P. Nordin saved his girlfriend Jacquie Webb – getting her over before his legs were blown off. And Jarrod Clowery who was the first to say “into the street” – got over. The remaining friend – Paul Nordin didnt make it and lost his right leg.
          In the picture where the person in short pants is sitting stunned – and the smaller person in a green shirt or jacket is right next to him/her – I first thought this was Denise Richard and Jane – but Jane had her leg severly injured and I doubt she
          would be able to offer comfort to her mother. I have looked long at these pictures and think that it is one of the injured guys and a as yet to be identified person. If that is little Jane comforting her mother – I’d cry my eyes out for a week. Can you imagine?

        • Missie Baker

          dear OLLCoach: here’s the link…david yepez, injured, was the friend Aaron ran ahead to stand by, and he is much bigger and older than Aaron. Both boys fathers were friends…so that “solves” the victim line-up (awful phrasing) and corroborates Mr. Hern’s account. http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/27/the-wounded-david-yepez/t7OiLeciQXoV8i4wmpHk6N/story.html
          thanks for find his name and sharing.
          Now, let me just ask…looking at the video recently shared from D. Robert on youtube, if there were in fact two simultaneous explosions one in front of the outdoor patio of the Forum and the other in front of the entrance to the Starbucks, would that change or explain anything? And I agree with you about Jane and the red-shirted fireman although he clearly rescued a young girl taken by witness at scene. Could it have been another young girl (9 YO) who was identified as having been severly injured by the items inside the explosive device? I’ve never seen a name or confirmation of which site was responsible for her injuries

        • olball coach

          thanks for keeping this straight, I am old and forgetful.

          There were not two explosions at the second site. Sometime during the evening of the 4/15 – I heard an explosives expert say that he saw was entirely consistent with a single IED. It has something to do with the air from the explosion reaching objects faster than the shrapnel. In the case of the Lens Crafters office the air from the explosion pushed the windows in – but gradually (in milliseconds) rushed upwards when the windows did not break. The windows bowed and as they snapped back into place enough sharpnel hit it that caused it to explode and outward. I imagine this is what happened at the Forum.

          The red shirted, off duty fireman – I think your article covers it. Whoever he carried to an ambulance or EMT is not Jane, and is not Martin. He states clearly that he covered Martin when he recognized he had passed on.

          There are a series of pictures with the brothers standing in front of a restaurant seconds after they turned on to Bolyston – 882 Bolyston – and in the foreground is a very small woman in an all green jacket with dark slacks and dark shoes.
          Obviously, I dont know – but it is as good a guess as any that she might be the person comforting whoever that is seconds after the blast at site 2. Judging from photos just seconds after this photo – she is gone – and in my opinion that person is one of the guys, wearing shorts, I mentioned earlier.

  • morph

    Check out Urban Shield 2012 http://vimeo.com/41709220#at=131

    ‘we want to do an exercise in Boston that has never been done before. We want to involve over 500 first responders in a 24 hour scenario.’ Urban Shield 2012 – Boston.

    ‘That was real. that was real training.’

    Run by this San Diego company – Strategic Operations who even advertise their involvement with Boston in a media release 3 May 2013 http://www.strategic-operations.com/news/article/2013/05/03/strategic-operations-helps-boston-disaster-preparedness

    Business card http://youtu.be/CQ8JG-Uyltk

    It has bothered me that we never heard again about the following which were clearly reported on the scanner during the manhunt for Tsarnaevs:

    Rocket in Basement/ Man with switch or suicide vest on/ Active shooter at the children’s hospital

    These were clearly explained on the scanner – there were a few other incidents that seemed very real that never made it to the media – in more detail than could just be a mistake.

    Was that whole 24-36 hours part of the exercise also?

    There is also a guy from SWAT team who arrested Dzhokhar Tsarnaev who was interviewed by Anderson Cooper who seems to appear on the Strategic Operations training video at 1:56 talking about amputation injuries, people who had legs blown up and torniquet practice in the drill – talks about the actors playing the role.

    Anderson Cooper SWAT interview http://youtu.be/kRLRNfjIEiE – guy at start
    Strategic Operation Business card http://youtu.be/CQ8JG-Uyltk – guy at 1:56

    Part of the world is a battlefield? Bring the war home to America? This company Strategic Operations is very likely connected to this event.

    http://youtu.be/vYgNbSj89H8 – marine who was injured in one of their training acting exercises in San Diego sued them

  • TycheSD
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  • Richard McIntosh

    Unanswered questions, questions created by a catastrophic event and then answered by the author do not equate to any sort of conspiracy. You really lost me with the officer Tippit comparison. Not valid, irrelvant and a rather thinly veiled attempt to start a never ending conspiracy debate. Please don’t get to the point where this becomes a false flag operation by the Obama administration. Seriously

    • jamesmadison

      Richard, educate yourself on our government’s history of false flag attacks and maybe the officer Tippit comparison won’t be so irrelevant to you. Observations of modus operandi and larger patterns is not irrelevant in a topical discussion as long as no claims it alone proves anything, which the author hasn’t. Your reference to the Obama administration betrays a certain ignorance of the deep politics of this country, in thinking there is any real difference between the two parties. Obama is a puppet, nothing more. That’s why he broke every campaign promise he made regarding drones, civil liberties, and ending the wars. This should be quite apparent to anyone paying the least bit of attention.

    • furtive

      IT IS A FALSE FLAG OPERATION-A DRILL FOR. DECLARING MARTIAL LAW-SERIOUSLY ..

  • guest

    v. interesting news today from Boston – what a coincidence!

    Police response training planned, but bombs hit firstBoston Globe – 8 June 2013
    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/06/07/before-police-could-plan-for-terrorist-attack-real-thing-happened/ufxjb9O0RXyzVZNPFyGkiI/story.html

    Before police could plan for a terrorist attack, the real thing happened Boston police and a slew of other agencies, including the MBTA and surrounding police departments, had spent months trying to come up with a scenario that would test their detective’s ability to investigate a terrorist threat. They had operated like movie producers, hiring Northeastern students to act the part of terrorists and witnesses and scouting places for shootings and terrorist safe houses. Then, the real thing happened.

    The scenario had been carefully planned: A terrorist group prepared to hurt vast numbers of people around Boston would leave backpacks filled with explosives at Faneuil Hall, the Seaport District, and in other towns, spreading waves of panic and fear. Detectives would have to catch the culprits.

    Months of painstaking planning had gone into the exercise, dubbed “Operation Urban Shield,” meant to train dozens of detectives in the Greater Boston area to work together to thwart a terrorist threat. The hypothetical terrorist group was even given a name: Free America Citizens, a home-grown cadre of militiamen whose logo would be a metal skull wearing an Uncle Sam hat and a furious expression, according to a copy of the plans obtained by the Boston Globe.

    But two months before the training exercise was to take place, the city was hit with a real terrorist attack executed in a frighteningly similar fashion. The chaos of the Boston Marathon bombings disrupted plans for the exercise, initially scheduled for this weekend, forcing police to postpone. Now officials must retool aspects of the training.

    “The real thing happened before we were able to execute,” said a law enforcement official with direct knowledge of the planned exercise. “We’ve already been tested.”

    This would have been the third year for Urban Shield, a 24-hour federally funded training exercise meant to test the response of police and other public safety personnel in a large-scale emergency, such as a toxic spill or a natural disaster.

    ‘The main goal of this was to arrest as many of the people as possible and absolutely identify where the [supposed] cache of bombs was being kept.’

    Last fall, a slew of agencies including Boston police and other police departments, the Coast Guard, and the MBTA joined forces to confront a simulated armed bank robbery in which the robbers were trying to escape with hostages.

    For this year’s training, the agencies wanted to test the investigative skills of their detectives, as well as their ability to work with detectives in other cities, and share intelligence, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because details of the planned exercise were confidential.

    The training, funded by a $200,000 Homeland Security grant, will probably be rescheduled to early next year, said Transit Police Chief Paul MacMillan, whose agency was slated to participate.

    He said he anticipates the new training scenario will be similar to the one already planned.

    “Why wouldn’t we do it?” MacMillan said. “Just because we had one event doesn’t mean that we might not have another one. And it behooves us to continually work together to investigate these types of incidents.”

    Cheryl Fiandaca, spokeswoman for the Boston Police Department, said the agencies had no choice but to postpone this year’s Urban Shield.

    “The resources and logistics of putting something of this magnitude together in light of what just happened would be challenging,” she said. “To put together an exercise that would be a really valuable training and teaching tool we need more time.”

    Officials from a dozen agencies had been meeting for months to plan the scenario. They behaved much like movie producers, recruiting students from Northeastern University and the Boston Police Academy to play the parts of terrorists and witnesses.

    They scouted warehouses and homes around Chelsea and Winthrop that could be used as a terrorist safe house.

    The basic plot was this: Half a dozen members of Free America Citizens wanted to gauge police response to a bomb scare. They would plant hoax devices, then stay on the scene to watch and record the bomb squad and detectives as they responded, as a dry run to a larger attack.

    The participating detectives, however, would not have known they were being watched. They would only be told that they were responding to an urgent terrorist threat. The goal of the training was for them to figure out the motives of Free America Citizens as they investigated the case, the official said.

    The planned exercise has eerie similarities to the police investigation that led to the capture of the alleged Boston Marathon bombers, Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, whose images were caught on video cameras and who were captured after a car chase and shoot-out with police.

    In the training scenario, investigators participating in Urban Shield would have to track down footage of the bombers caught by street surveillance cameras and the phones of “witnesses.”

    They would have to call on intelligence analysts to figure out which terrorist cell might be threatening the city.

    In the scenario, the terrorists would flee police in stolen cars they would dump in cities outside Boston, which would compel detectives from different jurisdictions to cooperate and share intelligence.

    One major clue would have been the body of one of the terrorists found near a stolen car, dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. There were also false leads to keep investigators guessing, the official said.

    “We’d have detectives running ragged,” the official said. “The main goal of this was to arrest as many of the people as possible and absolutely identify where the cache of bombs was being kept.”

    Fiandaca, the police spokeswoman, declined to say what a new training might look like.

    “We can’t talk about what we’re doing for emergency preparedness,” she said. “The people who participate in this don’t know what the scenario is.”

    • barbara

      It’s amazing how they talk openly about this. So much like the drill on 7/7.

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  • etnick etnuk

    I don’t understand: how do you know Collier was parked between the two buildings? Did I miss something?

  • emerald98

    I like the article, but you like all media as time goes on, change and add to stories based on all types of information uncovered. One of the articles you go so heavily into how the back packs are the same, they don’t seem like they could hold a pressure cooker, on and on – and yet here we are, you saying they were the Boston Bombers….you do this to yes clear up misconceptions of other media “narratives” as you go on and on about. If you believe in this story above of eye witness accounts that “Danny” said they killed him, then should your story be more about the why instead of being upset over why he was parked in between buildings? You seem to believe in the eye witness, but this story would be good if you did not find some other media story facts wrong or not to your liking. Lastly, or almost, what did you find out about the video besides one person saying they could not see the faces of the suspects, if there was one or two. And what about “other” stuff the video showed, why not ask what else was in the video? What were these two faceless people wearing, did they walk up or drive up, and if they drove, what kind of car, etc. Timing, what was the time. Instead of spending so much writing on how you could not get access to MIT police chief and his travels, you come off as arrogant, like don’t they know I am important and I have to come with some ideas for my story, like you are so much more important that all the other 100 request that come to his desk. Of course you are in good position to write, after the fact – you use all the other stories. published to show how wrong they were. Are you writing late and up the minute news here, no. All stories can have some questions. I don’t say that you don’t make excellent points, but even your story today didn’t answer the right questions on the video, how I came to this site, instead you went far off, and then came back with some closing words. So do you believe that Tsareuv brothers killed officer Collier? Why would they say they did it if all your information says you are not sure. I just think you should stick to the subject and not include so many other news reports, I do realize that it makes your story long and with that you are able to hit home all the “other media stories got it so wrong.” That is what you do, and we can all do that after the fact – and after more digging, even with your story, I still did not get what I was looking for, and you had person that saw the video, there should have been more work done with that eye witness…and laying it out instead of diverting so much attention how so many other media outlets got it wrong or gave the public the “wrong narrative.” By the way, that world is overused in this article. We get it.

  • dsekou

    i watched the news coverage of the events on the late
    thursday evening/ early friday morning the ‘shootout’ supposedly took place. i
    had the internet , the npr and bbc radio news and tv news all on at the same
    time because i had received through an internet friend. a ‘heads up’ over the
    net that “something big was going on in boston” involving hundreds of
    police and “two middle eastern men ” as the shooters. it was around
    3am and the cbs boston affiliate showed a nude suspect in handcuffs that police
    had captured and made strip. as the young man walked past the tv cameras, a
    brief glimpse of his face was given –but it was enough for me to instantly say
    out loud –“that’s him !” that’s the guy from the photos that Fbi has
    been saying all evening is a suspect in the marathon bombings and they need
    help in identifying.it was immediate and it was a gut reaction that the two
    images were the same man . when the ‘official story’ later changed and they
    said the nude man was not the suspect and the real suspect, tamerlan
    tsarnaev was dead after a shootout and being run over by his own brother –the
    “BS warning alarms” were going off inside my head. i looked
    everywhere but could not find the video of the nude suspect. i thought this
    unusual as everything concerning the events was plastered all over media to the
    beyond-saturation point.

    i spent the rest of the night and most of the next day fruitlessly looking for
    the video and telling anyone who would listen that this was something that
    needed to be looked into. it took almost three days while the rest of the
    “official story” began falling apart , for someone to lead me to
    others who had seen the same video and were asking the same questions. we
    couldn’t find the video anywhere until someone in brazil who had also seen it
    broadcast on the brazilian cnn affiliate, found the links to it and began
    circulating it. the consensus as more and more people saw it was that the
    uninjured suspect in the video was either tamerlan or someone looking
    remarkably like tamerlan. by this time, the younger brother had been captured
    and shot in the throat in a ‘bungled suicide attempt’ after a ‘ferocious ‘ hour
    long ‘shootout with police’ in which hundreds of rounds were ‘exchanged’
    –despite the boy being unarmed. the canadian aunt of the tsarnaev
    brothers –who apparently is a lawyer–was doing interviews on russia today tv
    saying that her nephews were innocent, they were set up, and she saw the
    news video of the nude and uninjured man taken into custody by police and
    believed it to be her nephew–so how did he end up dead?

    i don’t know if it had anything to do with me leaving comments about this for
    three days at his website and practically begging him to look into it–by this
    time, i did not know what else to do–, but alex jones finally sent an
    affiliate in canada to contact and interview the aunt. over the telephone she
    repeated her statement about the boys being set up and added that she was
    “100 percent sure” that the nude suspect captured alive was her
    nephew tamerlan. when it came time to do the interview on camera with the
    alex jones affiliate that she had earlier agreed to, the aunt suddenly declined,
    saying she was too fearful after receiving threats from canadian authorities to
    stop with all the media interviews and shut up–warnings that they could easily
    “crush” her like she was nothing –but again she refused to retract
    her original assertion and restated that the nude and uninjured suspect police
    took into custody was her now dead nephew, tamerlan.

    i say all this to continue to get the info out at websites where there is
    already an awakened public, but also to raise the question –if the government
    MO in this tsarnaev case can be compared to the government MO in the jfk
    case–ala the government/media usage of the murders of officer tippet and
    officer collier to pre-convict the “designated patsy” in the public
    mind, what about the “multiple oswalds” sited before the
    assassination, each conveniently identifying himself to eyewitnesses as ‘lee
    oswald’ while doing unusual things in public that were sure to stand out in
    witnesses memory later? today, could there have been more than one tamerlan
    playing the same role?

    ” hello eyewitness, i am the government team’s designated patsy number
    one. my name is tamerlan–this is my brother dzhokhar. we are car-jacking
    you at gunpoint, but don’t be afraid, we will not harm you. we will either let
    you go on purpose so you can immediately alert police, or while my brother is
    conveniently on video camera buying snacks in 7-11 –totally unconcerned about
    us being wanted by Fbi — i tamerlan, will be completely careless while
    getting your hijacked vehicle gassed up for road trip to new york and i
    will let you escape to tell on us and immediately lead police straight to us
    –so i can be shot to death by police and run over by my own brother —those
    news reporters just can’t get anything right, can they ? ha ha ha! oh
    well… and by the way, we the tsarnaev brothers, just shot the campus cop
    simply to get his gun–triggering an automatic and instantaneously massive
    police response– but for some reason we didn’t take the weapon with
    us…strangely, that cop looked very familiar–i may have met him in the boxing
    gyms sometimes. small world! the other cop we were supposed to have
    shot– the one that the police themselves actually shot —turns out he went
    through the police academy together with the dead cop–small world! and our uncle
    ruslan who , as we speak, is being prepped to publicly denounce my brother and
    me in government/media as bums–turns out he worked for halliburton and Usaid
    and was married to daughter of Cia ‘master spy’–small world! and that
    seminar i went to while in the Caucasus for 6 months? it seems it was funded by
    Cia sponsored “jamestown institute” as a recruiting ground for
    islamic fundamentalists to help destabilize russia. –the institute apparently
    was created by a bunch of unemployed neo-cons and recycled, rustic cold
    warriors like james woolsey and zbigniew Brzezinski who had originally recruited
    islamic fundamentalists against the old soviet union in afghanistan–small
    world! …and oh yes… my brother dzhokhar– his mentor for a big
    history project in high school that taught him our Chechen history of bloody
    struggle against the russians– the mentor turned out to be the same university
    professor at my brother dzhokhar’s university who works for Cia as an
    on-the-ground expert on the Caucasus region and central asia– small world!

    by the way we two tsarnaev brothers bombed the boston marthon earlier
    this week –did you see that on tv? …that was us, the tsarnaev brothers
    –t-s-a-r-n-a-e-v–tsarnaev. i’m
    tamerlan and my brother is dzhokhar –hope you can remember all of this mr.
    eyewitness? –oh yeah… by the way, after you escape, or after we let you
    go–or however this spins in the news media… remember to tell police that the
    tsarnaev brothers were on our way to new york–in your gassed up, hijacked
    vehicle–so that the tsarnaev brothers could blow up times square–remember ,
    that’s the tsarnaev brothers …t-s-a-r-n-a-e-v–tsarnaev we are the officially
    designated patsies for the Us government team.”

    • Jack1234

      That was an awesome post! From A-Z, you nailed it!

      • dsekou

        thank you.

    • toneii

      It should be pointed out that Naked Guy was NOT, in fact, Tamerlane Tsarnaev. I have seen the picture of the guy it really was. When you see the real guy, it becomes clear.

      • barbara

        Can you link to that picture of the real guy, or describe where to look for it? Who is he?

      • DM

        I totally disagree. I have not seen any photos of “the guy it really was” but I compared the naked guy to shirtless photos of Tamerlan and the musculature and the hairline match perfectly.

        • koejack

          Naked Guy was not Tamerlan. He was pronounced dead at 1:35 am.Drs. worked on him for 20 min. trying to revive him before that.Naked guy was detained after Tamerlan was transported to hospital.Naked guy has no hair on chest. Tamerlan quite hairy. Different profiles. Why do you encourage all this conspiracy bullshit?What is your big interest in American news? Nothing newsworthy in Canada? Or are you one of the bonkers relatives?

        • DM

          Right, you can see hair in that blurry image?
          And I think you’re mistaken about the timing. But I don’t really care about your opinion, frankly. Your manners suck.

        • koejack

          Unless all of the hospital staff are in on your conspiracy, Tamerlan was dead while Naked man was with cops and there are two live videos of naked man in custody CNN was there live unless they’re in on the conspiracy too. And you still didn’t answer your relationship

        • DM

          The time has not been verified completely.
          I don’t need to justify my interest to you. I have a right to discuss the matter. Or do you believe in free speech only for people you approve?

        • koejack

          You’re online encouraging Americans to jump on your conspiracy band wagon.What’s your real motive?

        • DM

          My motive is not to be interrogated by small minds. That’s my goal in life, actually.

        • koejack

          Here in America,We have Due Process. Your boy has been charged with the most serious of crimes.He cannot just be freed.He is a danger to society.His lawyers are trying to keep him off death row.It doesn’t matter how many of us you get on your conspiracy wagon, he has to be tried in court.The biggest question is will he get the death penalty or life in prison

        • koejack

          Are You American?

        • koejack

          The time has been verified.You just want to believe this is all a big conspiracy and your boy is innocent.But the truth is he is guilty.The big question for rational people is will he get life or death?I bet his lawyers use his mother’s poor parenting and his brother’s strong influence as a defense.If she were your mother and Tamerlan was your brother,you wouldn’t stand much of a chance either.However Dzhokhar is an adult and chose to maim and kill innocent people and he must accept responsibility for his actions.

        • DM

          Wrong again. And again.
          And again.
          You are so incredibly gullible, so incredibly willing to be led by the nose, it’s a wonder you manage to feed yourself without help. As if you are not aware of the many times the FBI has framed somebody for terrorism?? As if the many times they changed their story on this case is “normal”? The response that they’re not releasing all their info yet is typical, and typically gullible, so don’t even bother…

          This is a post worth reposting from Missie Baker regarding the photographs. You probably won’t read it, or understand it if you do, but it’s still worth reposting.

          “When even the professionals disagree, I guess that is something. Re: DT/bag/sidewalk/Forum compilation photo:

          One) It’s too good to be true. The perp, the weapon, majority of victims all captured in one neat package for LE. One photo no less. Possible, but probable?
          Two) Seals the deal. The photo draws the same visceral reaction from everyone: who but a monster sets a device next to child? Guilty!
          Three) How? We cannot see DT’s face clearly, but we can read the words on the signage hanging from the Forum windows.
          Four) Incredible Timing? The street along the barricade is empty with the exception of our running man–perfect and clear view of the victims and the knapsack. (or cropped to eliminate runners closer to the camera–or a long-range lens? This wasn’t taken with a cellphone.) Busiest time of race, too.
          Five) Inconsistent? Was this image released to illustrate DT dropping the bag and walking away–it tells the story of a vicious individual. (We know the timing now.) But not the crim complaint story, apparently.
          Six) Is this all? It’s the perfect opportunity to show a full face, not profile, of DT by knapsack but didn’t. Why? (This is a cellphone image, possibly only one taken.)
          Seven) Reinforcement. Viewer “owns” the authenticity of the photo, makes the connection to the smaller DT profile photo released by FBI on the 18th.
          http://www.thesmokinggun.com/b
          Eight) Sketchy Provenance? Who took it, released it, and why? Why wouldn’t the FBI claim this full view image on their site? Or have posted it on 4-18? (date it appears, although some MSM hedged, hinted source was uncertain.)
          (Update: Getty Image, license no, c/r held by woman found on Facebook who lists Blue Runner as a friend.)
          Nine)Stitched? It’s roughly 45′ of unimpeded street level view of the site. Is it stitched? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P…Would it be considered a panorama–much longer than height? It seems more than the human eye would “see” (160 x 75)
          Ten) Original subject? Most interesting, now that we know the background, who or what is the main subject? Wouldn’t it be the runner–and that raises the issue we already know. (Update: Photo subject c/be runner, who is listed as friend of photographer on Facebook.)
          Eleven) Professional? It’s too clear to be a surveillance camera image–we’ve seen an example of that in the photo of DT standing behind Ms. Sdoia speaking on his cell–those edges look softer. As you’ve noted, this looks like a still photo. (except for the blurry image of DT and that messy 7 or 3, but that’s not part of this comment)
          (Edit: Getty Images states this was taken with a cellphone)

          I’m sure you can add more!
          (Edit: So, this attribution makes the argument clearer for me: either the backpack was inserted/doctored pre-licensing to Getty, or it wasn’t DT’s backpack.)”

        • koejack

          There is help available for people that suffer from TBI and genetic mental illness.Contact your General Practitioner, explain your symptoms and he’ll steer you in the right direction.Don’t suffer alone any longer.You deserve better.

    • Missie Baker

      I always have questions, but never any answers. There has been a lot of discussion here relative to the Watertown events you mention. I now wonder about the entire Kitzenberg (sp?) video sequence. What exactly were the brothers doing that involved them stopping in the middle of the street in the dark? (where is OLLCoach–he always has amazing analysis) Why did the police vehicles, usually equipped with spotlights to shine on folks they pull over but evidently not this time, remain at the end of the street…at that point, no one knew brothers had any more detonation devices (if indeed they did.) Why were the LEO hanging back? How do the reported stories about brothers running between houses fit into them having a shoot-out in the street at the site of their two vehicles–their bodies so conveniently silhouetted in their SUV headlights? (as others have said.). Plus DT’s daredevil “escape” in the SUV with the flat tire…supposedly he was a terrible driver but he was but good enough to turn around & run a police roadblock.

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  • Moore2tell

    …AND what about Collier and Donohue’s connections to the Tsarnaevs? Didn’t they have the same boxing coach?

    • jwheels281

      Hi, Where did you hear they had the same boxing coach? Can you provide a link?

      Thanks!

  • Saintly Oswald

    The other event on the day of the bombing, the JFK Library fire, also had a changing story with silly final version; the fire was started by carelessly discarded smoking materials in the HVAC system. Does this mean that somebody tossed a cigarette into a vent and it exploded into flames…at the same time bombs went off across town? A month before the bombing, I inquired by email about a letter supposedly in the library collection, supposedly written by Jackie before she married JFK saying that she was going to do a job for the CIA. I got a response from an employee saying he’d never heard of such a letter, and couldn’t say whether or not the library had such a letter, even though I was able to give him the letter’s date. It seems to me that they should have been able to tell me, with the date, whether or not it was there. But, they suggested that I get more information about where it might be from the person who supposedly saw it. Some library. Anyway, one month later the place is on fire and the story is smothered by the Marathon bombings and aftermath. I am suspicious that the bombing was a smokescreen for disposing of Jackie’s CIA letter.

  • furtive

    Hastings was BREITBARTED. Gary Webb was assassinated.so was Philip Marshall: the FBI WORKS AT THE PLEAURE OF THE AG who services POTUS.
    Too many multiple attacks in 4 years to restrict the bill of rights.
    Lautenberg was utilitarian & he died shortly after this:
    http://www.dailypaul.com/282529/frank-lautenberg-introducing-legislation-to-ban-gun-powder-sales-just-like-predicted-on-infowars-reddit
    http://consortiumnews.com/2013/03/26/the-tragic-saga-of-gary-webb/
    http://www.apfn.org/apfn/bamboozle.htm

    WATCH YOURSELF RUSS!

  • Mervi Ketola

    Excellent article! Thank you Russ Baker! These kind of reports public does need! Investigating jounalism at its best!

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  • Missie Baker

    Interesting photo I haven’t seen posted here. The mind sees what it wants, but there’s a figure to right of transformer box. (genuine pic? who can say) Caught my attention mostly because it is right after the second explosion and most are quickly scattering. (And the figure’s clothing is not exactly a unique combination) Far too blurry to make out facial characteristics. And no one can be in two places at once.

    • Missie Baker

      Whoops, here’s the photo link–first image in the sequence.
      http://postimagesBB.tumblr.com

      • public_servant_watch

        Blast site 2 all FBI posing as rescue and injured. I researched every video and picture I could find where these people were wearing the FBI insignia and this is what I found.

        https://twitter.com/rebelready/status/353656061850427392/photo/1

        Raw video Blast site 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJn6kz-nDhA

        The Raw Video slowed and analysed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPx6AKtkBHg

        • WHO_Comments_Editor

          Dear commenter:

          You can appreciate that this video is not an objective presentation of fact. Could you provide this same footage without the sound effects and visual directives? Otherwise, we are compelled to delete it from your comment.

          Thank you,
          WHO_Comments_Editor

        • public_servant_watch

          You appear to have made your judgment without looking at the entire post. You were provided the RAW video and the slower video which makes visualization of the individuals present in the raw video more clear; your readers have enough sophistication to agree or disagree with the interpretations made by the producer of the slowed version of the posted raw video. There is no better presentation of fact than the raw video.

        • WHO_Comments_Editor

          Dear commenter,
          Our apologies for overlooking the raw video. Do you believe that the interpretation is justified? If a similar one drawing opposite conclusions were posted would you view it as propaganda rather than fact?

          Respectfully,
          WHO_Comments_Editor

        • public_servant_watch

          Considering all the look alike FBI when compared to the individuals at Blast Site 2, the interpretation is more than justified. What could be the conclusion beyond ID when a known picture of an individual matches an unknown individual in a picture. These are the pictures the FBI released to the public implicating suspect 2. It is more than obvious that the crowd is a fabricated picture and it appears they took a still shot from the video and used it to insert suspect 2’s head into a fabricated crowd which also explains why the 3 on the hat looks like a 7.

        • WHO_Comments_Editor

          Dear commenter,

          The issue with the interpretation version is the theatrics, particularly the music. These same methods are used in propaganda. However, we will leave it posted along with the raw video for the readers to assess for themselves.

          Respectfully,
          WHO_Comments_Editor

        • public_servant_watch

          Thank you! I think the Government wins the propaganda award. With the raw video, what is presented is rather benign as far as propaganda because it sides more with frustration regarding all the lies we have been told and a passion to promote truth!!

        • Missie Baker

          So, public servant, to your point about the manipulation of this photo of DT in the crowd, here’s a video (supposedly a BBC interview, but you never see or hear the interviewer) from a spectator who claims she was some 10′ or more away (toward Atlantic Fish) from the explosion. She says she saw a boy sitting on the mailbox (then grimaces, suggesting she realizes it wasn’t such an enviable seat after all)

          Is this a “real” BBC filming? Not sure, but there’s no boy or girl atop the mailbox in the DT sidewalk photo.

        • Missie Baker

          Here’s the BBC web site:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22179858
          so it appears to be a genuine BBC film.

        • public_servant_watch

          The video on first look has at least one still shot put in that has been photo shopped. And again the story changes. I believe the woman telling the story is an actor.

          There is no child in the road at any time in the Raw video – the only person in the road is up the street from the Forum and it is a blond adult woman. There is another video out there that David Green did and it is totally bogus with all the activity occurring having a different story line every time the star supposed fireman told the story to the media including the victim going from being a boy to a girl. This fireman supposedly ran out of a restaurant to save a child in the road right in front of the forum which the last story told reports the child as being little Jane and then there are pictures out there with the Dad carrying an injured Jane. Too many different tales to keep up. I will find and post for you.

        • Missie Baker

          I haven’t seen the David Green video, I don’t believe.

        • public_servant_watch

          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2314167/Dramatic-video-shows-duty-firefighter-coming-rescue-Jane-Richard-7-moments-Boston-marathon-bombing.html The video with the “fireman” star is at this link; the video has terrible clarity but what is going on in the video at this link is not validated by the raw video or the attached picture. I doubt this child at any time went from her father’s arms to the road to then be rescued by a bystander. I question the validity of the picture as well. I think we are victims of a very elaborate scheme. If you google the fireman’s name you be able to hear or read all the different versions of his rescue efforts on that day.

        • olball coach

          according to Mr. Richards he was in shock and scooped his daughter up and carried her away from the her brother and mother.
          Then dropped to his knees – at which point the firefighter saw her and moved into action. Because her hair was burnt he (the firefighter) mistook her for boy. As soon as the tourniquet was on – he rushed her to an ambulance. This accounts matches the women in the BBC report who says she and her husband saw the child in the street – again thinking Jane was a little boy.

        • olball coach

          the police officer seen carrying away another child is much younger – and I believe to be the un-named 5 year old in the hospital listed on the BG’s victims list.

        • Missie Baker

          I concur. The video of the firefighter is very poor quality, but stopping the frames, you can determine it is Mr. Richards by his daughter, the backpack he has half off his shoulder. I hadn’t realized he had been interviewed about the event, was it reported by the Globe?

        • olball coach

          His local town or neighborhood paper interviewed him around day of funeral for Martin – this is where the “we were coming back from ice cream” story came from, And where he said the tree saved Jane by taking most of the explosive force instead of her. The family has been very quite after this one interview.

        • olball coach

          What I have done is taken the 100 or so published pictures of the bombing and placed them in chron order as best I can surmise – then divide them into blast site #1, blast site #2 – and then by preblast, seconds after, minutes after, post blast –
          As I mention above – I then compared each injured individuals account that I can find from the BG or in some cases there home town paper – and compare what they describe their actions were before, during and after the blast to the pictures and video.
          In most cases they verify each other – in some cases the narrative is missing or the photos are missing and so pieces of the narrative are incomplete. But for the most part it is all there.
          Where the questions arise are when you match up what the “official narrative” of LE and the pictures and video and or police scanner – that’s where the discrepancies are undeniable. The one mentioned above – where the contributor mentions the criminal complaint states DT dropped the bag after the first explosion. The photographic evidence does not support that assertion. The LE photo shows DT walking away – the bag is dropped and everyone appears to be watching the race and not aware a bomb exploded a 1/2 block away.

        • Hoegarten

          OMG Someone noticed my comment! Also, in that picture, the bag on the ground looks much fuller and heavier than DT’s bag in the surveillance footage.

          On another note, what do you make of his behavior at the hearing? He smirked at his sobbing and praying sisters throughout the trial; at the end of the trial blew a kiss toward them. Reporters say he was fidgeting while the judge was talking to him, wiping his mouth alot (maybe because he was drooling from missing teeth), adjusting his splint on his hand, and seem nonchalant and disinterested. He was also reported to have been over 6 feet tall. Before, he was described to have been 5’10 in April. If you look at the footage of him at the gym a few months ago he’s not that tall. I guess guys that age can have growth spurts but….. His wrestling teammates also said he had a thicker Russian accent than they remember. That may be because he was stressed and he’s not trying to be Mr. popularity anymore, but it is said that if a child moves to a different country before the age of 12, they typically wont have an accent when speaking the language of the new country, which seems consistent with the descriptions of him before the trial. The reporters also said that the swollen left side of his face and the splint were the only signs of injury. What about gunshot wounds from being shot in the neck, and allegedly having it sliced open? Is it even the same person or a lookalike? Also, the behavior was very strange, like he was on some cocktail of hallucinogenic and sedative drugs. His accent was also different. A different personality? Could he have been MKUltra’d? Some reports also said he also had a black eye and a broken jaw. Could that be part of the torture done in MKUltra to make a person disassociate and thus be able to have another discreet personality programmed into them? His behavior was not consistent with the well-mannered intelligent man his lawyers have described, or that we heard on the phone call to his mother. His appearance and accent is even different! WTF!

        • olball coach

          Without seeing for myself, I dont know. Reporters, speculations and interpretations are simply to keep note of. He was listed as 5’9″ 150 lb (? cant remember exactly) in high school wrestling guide.
          But the swollen face is interesting – and can be indicative of several things, like: recovering from wounds (but I thought it was his throat that was injured), recovering from a later “accident” in the hospital, and/or drug useage as you mentioned.
          A double, or MK’d, or accent – all speculative at best until we see more.

        • Hoegarten

          First main development: Pictures of the hearing and video have leaked on twitter:
          Video at 1:48: http://www.vesti.ru/only_video.html?vid=521678

          Pictures: http://twitpic.com/d22wlu

          Here is the quote from an article about the arraignment in the hospital from the boston globe:

          “He had visible injuries including apparent gunshot wounds to the head, neck, legs and hand,” Genck wrote.

          Link: http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/04/22/white-house-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-bombing-suspect-tried-federal-court/VvkTs5UtwmsuEnKMXMVSXM/story.html

          Here is a purported message from a friend of the family put on the site in late June. It’s sketchy, but it is consistent with press reports and describes the throat wound: a bullet went through the right side of his neck going thru to the other side, under his ear.
          http://freejahar.ucoz.com/news/messages_from_the_zubeidat_and_dzhokhar/2013-06-25-32

          They also say he is 5’10”. In the CNN footage of them at the gym a few weeks before the bombing. You can see he is smaller in stature, and definitely 4 or so inches shorter than Tamerlan :http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/31/justice/boston-brothers-gym

          Here is a youtube video (Sorry I couldn’t find simply raw video), where one of his wrestling team members say his mannerisms and demeanor were completely different from what he knew. :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpclnsv0F6k
          The Independent also quotes his teammates and coach saying he never had such a thick accent when they knew him. Either a different personality-or all together different person

          His behavior was also very odd. These behaviors were noted in multiple news sources by the way :Looking very disinterested, yawning, fidgeting, smirking and blowing kisses to his sobbing sisters, glancing backward at the victims while the trial is going on. Reporters said he also looked drowsy. I know this is further speculation, but the fidgeting and glancing around seems like he is coming down from LSD, still hallucinating and you feel as if there is a bug on you. Smirking and blowing kisses to your sisters during your terrorism trial..That’s quite bizarre. He’s definitely not operating on this dimension, ecstasy perhaps? He also is drowsy and doesn’t give a fuck about anything – Atavan?
          The whole behavior also is not consistent with what the family friend said his defense lawyers said: they were impressed with his manners and intelligence. They adore him and are working very hard for him.
          I think that’s why his lawyer was trying to give the pleas before the judge asked for Dzhokhar to directly give the pleas, the lawyers knew they were dealing with a Dzokhar Tsarnaev not connected to reality

        • olball coach

          Interesting, take note and wait for more. My initial reaction was he seemed heavier than the pictures we have seen of him – in the gas station and at the ATM etc., My question is that if you got that 10 sec clip outside the courtroom on a monitor – why isnt there more? Why would you stop taping? So, ?

        • olball coach

          btw: TT was 6’4″ 220 a heavy weight – and DT was 5’9” 160.

        • DM

          You mean, DT is 5’9″. He is not dead.

        • Hoegarten

          I would guess because the person was trying to be discrete, considering they’re not allowed to record at all. On remarks on his height: I’m repeating what I saw on the news. The reporter said that DT was very tall, over 6 foot.

        • Missie Baker

          I’ve read various reporters’ descriptions of his behavior, with statements ranging from a shy smile to his sisters, to a wry grin, to a smirk on his face. Real question: which interpretation makes the best story?

          As to whether he had been receiving mood-altering drugs, or something stronger, might he had been given some medication/sedation for travel, or to keep him pliable during the nearly day-long wait for his hearing @ 3:30?

          One of the posters here theorized DT had been held elsewhere prior to his discovery in the boat, and had been drugged, explaining why he was so docile when 100 or more shots were fired into the boat, and flash-bangs were going off in his face. I hadn’t given it much thought before reading your comments, but the stilted confession he wrote on the boat walls with a convenient marker, possibly the first and only “evidence” of justification for the bombing, would have been so neat & tidy, case-closed, if he hadn’t been so disagreeable as to survive. (I do suspect his sisters would have been able to ID an imposter in court, assuming those were his two sisters.)

        • Hoegarten

          1. I do still think it’s quite odd to shyly smile at your sisters repeatedly throughout the trial, especially when they’re crying and praying. I could see smiling at them once, waving, then sitting down and concentrating on the trial, perhaps glancing over them once or twice.

          2.What explains him turning around almost 180 degrees to glance at the victims multiple times during the trial? That’s also on the video (well, the degree of his turn, not the multiple times)

          3.I don’t know why he would need to be sedated to be pliable for the trial and the wait, if he’s this zen, wise beyond his years teenager that everyone including his defense lawyers describes (that’s also kind of suspect for a 19 year old boy in this situation, but I digress) He was never catatonic or kicking and screaming ever. Only when he was first apprehended was he reportedly acting a little cranky.

          3.Regarding the sisters ID, has anyone actually talked to his sisters since the trial? Also, in terms of noticing differences in mannerisms as opposed to his teammates and coach: his teammates saw him more frequently, for longer periods of time. His sisters moved away a few years ago, so those subtleties may be harder to remember. Also in regards to them noticing a difference in accent, the sisters may not have noticed it, because they maybe cannot hear the subtleties in the pronunciation having been in Russia longer than he was, and leaving at an older age.
          For ex. my French high school teacher was actually from France. We would tell her how to pronounce Toad,”toe-d” and she would always say “That’s what I said: Tud”
          He also had quite a growth spurt in there, he grew 3 inches and apparently gained 25 lbs. They might have attributed slight physical differences to his growth spurt.
          They also probably weren’t thinking critically during this short trial. “Where is this huge gunshot wound in his neck that he is supposed to have? Why is he being so disrespectful?” I had to sleep on it to make sense of and to interpret the information I was hearing, and I’m obviously far less emotionally invested in the situation.

          Sorry to beat this into the ground, but I cannot believe that this was the genuine, un-tampered with Dzhokhar in that courtroom on Wednesday.

        • disqus_14BibRQLcp

          I was on freeahar.net in the guestbook area and it was posted that the family is not allowed to speak or reply to emails because it will jeopardize Jahars case.

        • WHO_Comments_Editor

          Could you please verify the website “freeahar.net?”

          Thank you,
          WHO_Comments_Editor

        • disqus_14BibRQLcp

          Sorry freejahar.net. Using smartphone.

        • DM

          That is not true, several people from that group and others on Facebook have been in touch with Jahar’s mother by email and phone. They have said however that Jahar was told not to reply to letters from anyone but family members.

        • medianotes6

          He may have been on heavy pain killers in order to be able to go through the ordeal, which might account for some of this behavior or what might be mistaken for blaze attitude. The right kind of pain killers can even make one jittery. Although he’s young, stress can affect the healing process, slowing it down.

          Here is a link to the Russian news site
          that has an article about his medical report:
          http://izvestia.ru/news/552644

          I used Bing to translate, but there’s google translator and others available on the web.

          It says he received 16 gunshot and stab wounds. One important shot entered his neck, ‘severed’ his cheek and fragmented his skull and jaw, disfiguring the left side of the face, deafening his left ear and leaving him all but blind in the left eye

        • Missie Baker

          That is a lot of damage to the human body.Would someone with that many wounds of such a serious nature truly have been able a scant 48 hours later to hold up to 16 hours of questioning by a special team? Writing responses on a pad…at least they got a writing sample.

          Assuming the “questioning” without an attorney present under an expanded public safety exception wasn’t a pretext for undocumented access.

          If I was a conspiracy theorist (and I’m not!) between this and the Todashev murder, I’d be inclined to believe our covert agencies were trying to clean up someone’s mess.

        • DM

          I strongly doubt he could have even written much more than a few words – and he reportedly asked for a lawyer 21 times, so he might have written “LAWYER” and used it over and over.
          The Todashev murder is totally suspicious; again the stories changed within hours, more than once, and all of them are implausible. There is no reason to accept the FBI’s version. And two of the agents involved were reported dead not long afterwards, apparently they fell out of a helicopter. No joke!

        • Hoegarten

          I found this on twitter: https://twitter.com/free_jtsar2/status/355791246343675904/photo/1

          This woman on behalf of his mom and sister is claiming there were no smirks, no accents, it’s all made up. But, why would his friends spread fake rumors? Then the victims families were not present. (?) Ok…. sure.. Like olball coach said. I think the victims are real. All of their stories are consistent.

          If you were to follow Ivestia narrative, he is also supposed to have stab wounds in his neck, starting from the top down to his collar bone. If you look at the leaked pictures, his neck looks pretty pristine.

          This case is irritating. What is the real story here?!

        • DM

          No, he has a scar on his neck, according to several people present.

        • olball coach

          Interesting – I read several of the posts by Izvestia – and, if I am not mistaken – it is being reported in Russia that Momma T is also wanted for being involved in the planning of the bombing. The translator is having difficulty with syntax – but that much seems pretty clear. anyone else?

        • Missie Baker

          Here’s a link to an interview with the sister named Alina after the news of TT’s death broke.
          http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/04/west_new_york_woman_identifyin.html#incart_river

        • DM

          Family members instinctively recognize one another. It does not matter if a few years have passed.
          Secondly, there was a scar on his neck (see my comment above).
          Thirdly, his mouth was damaged by at least one if not two bullets, along with his jawbone. That would obviously affect his speech. And it would also take a long time to heal and be very very painful. He was undoubtedly on some kind of painkillers – and I hope he stays on them for as long as it takes, because it must be torture.

        • olball coach

          I dont know. Its clear he “looks” different from the 100 or so piks published of him thus far at various ages. His high school wrestling bio is that he is 5’9″ and 150 lbs. And comparing the surveillance piks with the artist renditon and the short clip – he has gained weight in his shoulders.

          Since so many things dont add up – from the bomb blasts, the FBI withholding information and only after Momma T calls them out do they admit to knowing him, the unbelievable car jacking – the mutiple shootouts that night – the BS about Collier and the 7-11 – Uncle CIA Ruslan – the shooting of the kid in Florida and now the FBI is refusing to cooperate with the Senate sub committee looking into this – I am half way convinced he and Tamerlan are out of the country – and this is just show.

        • DM

          For the very same reasons in your second paragraph, and given the known actions of the FBI to entrap a dozen or so other poor souls into terrorism charges for which they are now serving life sentences, I would say there is no doubt about a show. But again for the same reasons, plus the known details about the brothers’ lives in the states, there is also absolutely no reason to entertain the idea that the brothers are out of the country. It would be a comforting thought but it is extremely unlikely.

          The FBI and all of the security agencies, from the CIA on down, to the military, are not concerned about protecting lives of individuals. Their purpose is to protect and maintain the stability of power.

          (You do know that two FBI agents are dead after falling out of an aircraft, within days after interrogating and killing Tamerlan’s acquaintance in Florida?)

        • olball coach

          I keep going back to Uncle Ruslan – he’s running some serious business along side Graham Fuller and Russian business and underworld figures. As high up TT’s classified info was – not even mentioning it after the bombing to their own people on the Regional Task Force – and its only because of Momma T that we even have this window to look in – leads me to believe some serious fing’up occurred at multiple moments in this drama and they are either out of the country, or dead.

          The only thing that makes me think they are alive – is on the scanner feeds from 4/18 and 4/19 there are three seperate shoot outs with police described by emotional and panicked officers. Dexter&Laurel, Adams and Mt Auburn, and Lincoln and Spruce. Dexter &Laurel is captured by the Ketzenberg photos, and at least two home videos – and the arrest at Adams and Mt Auburn is captured on home video down thread here. Lincoln and Spruce was over in a hurry as officers were fired upon, presumably by DT as the officers came up behind his parked vehicle. DT scrambled away and was found a block away.
          Now – in all there were 4 announced on radio – arrests and/or detainments of the following:

          1. dexter and Laurel (TT runover – and officer down)

          2. dexter and Hazel (Naked guy- CNN video)

          3. adams and Mt Auburn (2 individuals and from the home video you can clearly here brothers calling each other )

          4. Mr Auburn and Upland (pajama boy eventually let go).

          The commander on scene requested all units to report if they had suspects under arrest or detained and these are the ones that came in. His next order was for everyone not involved in an arrest or detainment to report back at the Armenian Church because they were already having traffic issues just with their own guys.
          5 minutes later – it is reported the FBI is on scene – the Commanding officer requests all units to switch to another channel – I cant remember (its on the scan – maybe code 12). Everything from then on was guarded and bureacratic.
          Now in order for that much action to occurr that night – more than just 2 individuals were involved. No other way to slice it. If more than two other individuals are involved – and all of this is off the official narrative – then you cannot help thinking this is way past our pay grade and just maybe – they were being brought in, but since the FBI and certainly the CIA were not telling anybody anything about these two – Local LE were simply going off the unfortunate connection one of the commanders made between the 7-11 heist, Collier shooting, and the hijacked car story – They were all in to get a cop killer and it wasnt until the FBI arrived that they were informed they were the BMB’ers – and then radio chatter went all bureacratic and the rest of this is just a show.
          Again, I think it boils down to Uncle Ruslan, Graham Fuller and the CIA.

        • DM

          I’m sorry, I cannot follow your logic. There is a whole host of assumptions and leaps that seem to be arbitrary.
          You also kind of lost me where you say DT, Jahar, supposedly conducted a shootout.
          Stand back and think a moment before you react: the brother were reportedly found with a paltry number of weapons, and only one was a gun.
          How on earth could they conduct long shootouts with cops armed to the teeth?
          More to the point, WHY would they do such a totally stupid thing? Ditto for a carjacking and a cop-shooting.
          I can maybe imagine that Tamerlan created a short-lived diversion to save his baby brother, but the rest of the allegations make absolutely no sense under the circumstances.
          Above all, there is no case for a motive, not even on fumes!

        • olball coach

          Its on the scanner feed. You cant get around it. There is much I have left out in this thread to you that – I posted earlier down thread. For example a stolen state police vehicle is reported shooting at officers at Adams Street by three different officers – geez just happens to be a Black Mercedez same make and model as the one the boys hijacked? Convenient, coincidence?

          ….just cant bring myself to keep rehashing all this – read down thread – watch the videos of them being arrested at Mt Auburn and Adams. And then figure out who it was that got run over at Dexter and Laurel. Who was it then that shot at officers at Spruce and Lincoln (where the Black Mercedez ended up)? The panicked officers reported it – just before they crashed into someones back yard. That’s not in the official narrative either – but its on the scanner feed.

          I have already argued they didnt shoot Collier – the proof is on the scan.

          I have already argued the carjacking is questionable at best and the time table offered by the official narrative does not match the scanner evidence –

          How on earth did they conduct long shoot outs – because there was more than two of them the police were dealing with – and I dont believe the official narrative on the guns – I believe what I heard on the scanner feed and that was confirmed by the home videos – down feed.

          My analysis is based on the scans, the video’s and the witness accounts. Every assertion is based on something I have left here for everyone to review. So refute my data with your own – or show where I misinterpreted or mistaken data for something it is not. If you havent listened to the scans then we are having a one way conversation. So, ball in your court.

        • DM

          I am not refuting the data or the facts you found at all. I agree totally that the carjacking is questionable – not credible, actually.

          Although I know what you mean about the shootings – there was a terrible long barrage of gunfire from a slew of police for a long while before sundown and nobody has explained it – I don’t know whether it is reasonable to assume the cops were shooting at more than two people at the time. I figured they were just spooked, to be honest! It was totally open season and they were hyped up. They could have been shooting at a squirrel. I did hear some of them shot at a dog.

          Watertown residents could probably tell us more, but no doubt they are in fear of their lives after that experience. They were not the ones dancing in the streets after the SWAT team apprehended Jahar.
          Americans are slow to realize what is going on is not an aberration (anymore). It is the norm now to send out heavily armed vehicles and troops at a moment’s notice. New York City was overrun with security for days and days afterwards and nobody dares complain or even comment on it. The cost is astronomical and meanwhile the roads are breaking up due to lack of maintenance. I don’t think the Russians ever did such things even in Moscow during the Cold War… Budapest and Berlin, sure. But not their own cities. It’s very sad.

          I also think it’s a bit astonishing that no journalist seems to have investigated the two young men who were first deemed suspects, one of them was Indian, and I only recall the other’s name was Mike something. Both are apparently now dead.

        • olball coach

          You are right – those police officers where spooked and for the 7-8 minutes the whole thing lasted you could hear fear – and panic – especially when they got surprised by the shots and bomb being fired at them at the Adams Street call – dispatch asked them several times if they needed an ambulance and finally after several seconds a call for officer down came in and an ambulance was dispatched. Again – this is not in the official narrative – at least nothing I read in the Globe or anywhere else – but it is on the scanner recording. I was shocked when (down feed) a video surfaced that showed the police arresting two individuals – you could hear one yelling in the background – one of the contributors here thought it was Tamerlan yelling for Johar – I dont know. But – what I don know – is when they walked one of them back to the police cars down the street – he was wearing a white hat – the same one we saw each of them wear in surveillance piks provided by LE that night. The shock for me was – that this ocurred minutes after the shoot out at Dexter and Laurel – where supposedly Tamerlan was run over. If Tamerlan was run over and Johar was arrested wearing the white hat? Who was it that was shooting at officers just seconds later at Lincoln and Spruce as they reported on scan before driving into someones back yard. And who was naked man ? if you listened to the CNN reporter that night – he sort of implied he got to come along on an embed – as he walked down Dexter and got watch the and film naked man. This strip search occurred at somewhere between – Hazel and Dartmouth or maybe a block up (?) Anyway – that is roughly in the same vicinity as where officer Donohue was injured and if you follow along on the map Hazel connects directly to Adams Street which connects directly to Mt Auburn. Again all of this is not being reported, but it is there on the scans.
          Last thing – when the carjacking was first reported by the investigator on scene he gave dispatch the lo-jack code for the Mercedez – within seconds – dispatch had located the Mercedez at an address – 81 Dexter Ave. My question at the time and remains unanwered is – was that a parked location – or where they just passing by as they were cruising that neighborhood for the third or fourth time that night? I don’t know.
          If it was a parked location – what where they doing there and why havent we heard about that – I mean it makes for better news ratings if the local PD and the FBI bust a terrorist cell – right? Again, to get around to my original contention – I think they were being called in – they were in the middle of transferring their stuff to a Black Mercedez (a state police vehicle look alike) when the local rubes showed up thinking they were cop killers – and not knowing anything else – because up to a couple hours prior the FBI and the CIA had kept their identities close to the vest. The rubes thinking they got cop killers went after them – the handlers got involved, scared the hell out of everyone and the rest is now a show.
          What a coincidence the local FBI chief – Desaunders or something got booted only weeks after all this crap went down.
          btw: I rehased like I said I woudnt – there is still more – nuff for now.

        • DM

          I never grasped why the brothers were transferring stuff to a black Mercedes either, and nobody has ever confirmed if that was the carjacked Merc or a police car.

          I also don’t get why Danny, whose last name is now known (I have it somewhere) and is a Chinese immigrant with a small start-up of some kind, would drive a car like that, but never mind.

          It’s just my gut feeling, but I tend to doubt the scenario that involves the local cops screwing up a federal operation. Same with naked man: just my gut feeling but since his aunt recognized him as her nephew and my own eyes say so, I say it’s Tamerlan. I don’t know about the timing and individual shootings.

          I was on twitter a lot that week and just around the supposed shootout and killing of Tamerlan, I somehow felt this was all staged in order to set up the Russians to go back into Chechnya and the US to go into Syria. By Wednesday/Thursday Obama’s statement about Assad using chemical weapons was all over the media, as if a prelude to military action. Thursday, even before they got Jahar, Obama phoned Putin to thank him for his nation’s cooperation in identifying the bombing suspects. On the weekend, Russian forces firebombed a farmhouse in Chechnya and killed at least six “militants” – stirring up the first violence in a long time.
          Then there was the Chinese element… anybody’s guess!

        • jwheels281

          Hi, What is Danny’s last (and 1st) name and where did you find it? Can you provide a link?

          Thanks!

        • Hoegarten

          I wasn’t saying that he is a typical teenager who wasn’t wise beyond his years, I was saying his reported behavior was odd for someone who is that way. There is not a set and normal way for someone to act in this situation, but him being more mature than most 19 year old boys, I would think he would try to appear respectful at all costs, not only to the prosecutors and judge, but to the media who would report his behavior. That alone could affect the jury pool. The CNN report says he was fidgeting, seemed disinterested, yawning, resting his chin on his hand, not making eye contact with the judge, turning back to look at the victims while the trial is going on.etc. One also cannot believe the media either, they want to give the public something else to squabble about. In one of my links on here, I posted an alleged e-mail from his mother to one of his supporters, saying that reports of his behavior and accent were false according to his sisters. There were also reports of one of his teammates saying that he didn’t have different mannerisms as the other teammate reported on video, but that he seemed tired. That report was scrubbed from the internet of course. His allegedly odd behavior would be in contrast to the phone call with his mother, in which he is remarkably calm considering his situation.

        • DM

          I do not buy the idea that he wrote a confession on the boat. It’s totally poppycock.

        • Missie Baker

          Sorry if I wasn’t clear–I find the writing on the walls a difficult pill to swallow. Many outlets reported a “pen” (totally unbelievable–boat interiors are designed to be resistant to scratches, etc. plus a large portion of the walls appear to be wood planks or some approximation thereof, but it’s a wooden boat, I read somewhere, so likely it’s real wood.) I believe ABC News stated a marker was used. It’s unclear how many gunshot wounds DT sustained before seeking refuge in the boat, but he *might” have been wounded. However, not so severely he couldn’t run a block & a half or so. (One gunshot wound in the leg and you could write me off.) Supposedly the bedside “confession” is confirmed in the language and sentiments of the boat text. Uh-huh.

        • DM

          It’s preposterous. And as they have not produced a photo, it’s completely untrue as far as I am concerned. Just as any bedside confession. They are not the only untrue things the FBI and the police have foisted upon the public. But they are among the worst.

        • olball coach

          It has been shown on several sites the bag could have easily been shopped in – and visually it is a black bag – and not the grey bag carried by DT. Down thread here, I have posted a picture of DT standing 3-4 trees back from the bomb blast site at 1:44 (the picture was taken with an Iphone and time stamped) – 8 minutes before the blast. This location at this time makes it difficult for DT to match the LE narrative in the Criminal complaint – without attracting attention to himself, let alone doing dropping the bomb there. In addition, I have analyzed the backgrounds of the photos the LE used to id DT – the backgrounds dont match or appear to be highly manipulated – again down thread. If there is a frame – this is were the defense will look.

        • DM

          He was described by others as having a scar on his neck. This is where a bullet entered. The same bullet reportedly exited out of his cheek. It shattered his jaw and damaged a nerve leading to his eye, causing the eye to droop. What they called a “smirk” was in reality his inability to smile fully because the same injuries affected his mouth; he cannot control the muscles on the side where his cheek is swollen. He was smiling at his two sisters who were in the courtroom. It was unmistakeable that they recognized him to be their brother.
          He looked taller than he is in the artist’s sketches because he was standing next to a very short woman, Miriam Conrad. In the sketches with Judy Clarke he is only slightly taller than her.
          He had a cast on one arm from the hand up to his elbow and a bandage on his other hand. He had trouble moving, as a result of the gunshots to his legs. He told his mother that he was hit with 16 bullets.

        • Hoegarten

          One of his friends is recorded on video saying his mannerisms were different. Others said it was the same, he just seemed very tired. There is a letter from their family friend on twitter. She says there are multiple stab wounds on his neck, going from top of his neck to his chest. One scar to remove the bullet from the right side of his neck would not cover it. It was not the court sketches I got the “6 ft tall” from, it was the reports from CNN and the local news which said that. The FBI info said 5’9, but they probably took that from his driver’s license, which is old info. I found on his twitter, when he said “I’m 6 feet tall baby” or something like that, lol.
          Link to Tatiana’s letter: http://twitpic.com/cz7ll8

        • DM

          Thanks, I saw that on facebook too.

          It’s appalling. His left ear doesn’t hear well, his eye is nearly blind. He is essentially a disabled person thanks to the police and the FBI. That is why I find it so repellent that the media is mocking his disabilities by saying he was “smirking”.

          However I must point out one correction if you don’t mind – Tatiana talks about mainly bullet wounds. She does not say “multiple stab wounds”. She mentions one “knife-like” wound goes from his neck towards his collarbone.

          I find it appalling that there is no investigation going on about his wounds or about his brother’s killing, which by all accounts happened after he was apprehended. The claim that DT ran him over does not hold up and is not sufficient. Investigations are routinely done whenever a suspect dies in custody, right?

        • Hoegarten

          You’re right. She said one wound, but the Ivestia article (I put it into Google Translate) instead of Bing said multiple. Quote from Ivestia: “Because of the bullet wound in the neck at Tsarnaeva deformed the whole left side of his face. The bullet pierced his neck, severed his left cheek and shattered skull. Also on the body Tsarnaeva Jr. found numerous wounds inflicted with a knife. . Stab wounds begin with the top neck and ends at the collarbone.” In the pictures, I see no neck wounds in the pics on twitter.

          It could be lost in translation. I feel that it was most likely him now that a letter from someone in the family says he had no accent and no odd behavior that the media reported. The height difference was also explained by the FBI using old info. Interestingly enough, he re-tweeted something in Russianvfrom KavKazCenter (which is a website for the Caucasion Emirates-the main terrorist organization in Chechnya/Daegestan). Why has no one in the media made note of that? I don’t understand why the CIA would stage this whole event, kill Tamerlan’s friend in Fl, only for the real, un-drugged Dzhokhar to stride in and potentially blow this thing apart in court.

        • Hoegarten

          I knew that picture was fake! In the criminal complaint, it says he doesn’t drop the bag and start walking eastward until the first bomb had already gone off. The people around him don’t look like they’re reacting to a bomb that just went off.

        • Hoegarten

          I don’t understand why the 3 would look like a 7, unless they needed to photoshop the number so it wouldn’t look like a sideways 3. Also, I think the picture makes Jahar look too tall. He’s only 5’9-5’10 at most. He would not be towering over women who are an average of 5’2 5’3. Martin Richard also looks quite tall for an 8 year old boy, and his jeans are in between the bars of the barricade while he is standing a good 3 inches away from it. Those are some baggy jeans, especially for an 8 year old boy; a teenager I could buy.

        • DM

          There is an obvious seam in the photo where images of suspect 2 and his brother were inserted; Martin Richard’s mother has an unnatural shape of her head.

        • Missie Baker

          I did watch both videos. I agree the gentleman with the lanyard & white ID card is an FBI agent–but could there be a benign explanation for his presence? He seems to stay out of the way of those helping victims, and appears to be scanning the area. As for the others, very sorry but videos are too blurry for positive ID on my screen. (and I believe these victims were genuinely hurt.) As you have been closely scanning the second site, have you found visual evidence of the two Chinese nationals at this site? (I’ve not)

        • public_servant_watch

          There appears to be more than one FBI agent at Blast site 2! Each individual that I posted and labeled FBI was found in news media pictures and/ or videos and wore an FBI identifier on his clothing. I did not see any individuals represented to be present at Blast Site 2 in pictures released to the public by the FBI or media sources nor did I see the Chinese nationals. I still shot both videos for as many stills possible to do a complete analysis. Absolute positive ID is of course subject to a more professional analysis but considering the number of individuals that that are known FBI that resemble the individuals at blast site this is more than coincidence!

        • olball coach

          just not convinving dude – Read the stories of the victims. They are not flying out soon to Europe or Asia with gazillions in there bank account. One of those above was pictured at the explosion at least and hour ahead of time waiting for his friends who had there legs blown off – come on.

        • public_servant_watch

          You need a serious cup of coffee!!

        • olball coach

          you can match their descriptions of what they were doing and when with pictures taken before the bombing. For example the Nordin brothers were there with 4 other friends – one said he arrived an hour early – BINGO – bald guy you think is FBI is seen in several piks early (white shirt and sweats) – Same thing with the kid who was injured and watched Martin Richard die – BINGO – pictures match the story – he is standing next to an older friend (yep he was injured too) and Richards older brother after running ahead of dad – and BINGO – there is dad walking by him – just before the bomb blasts go off – And I matched every single person standing at that barrier to an injured person story – and finally – watching the earlier News video that passes through the crowd – shows several of these same injured people standing there. – Conspiracy ? yes – but I dont have to make things up.

        • public_servant_watch

          added look alike- note she has the same shirt on!!

        • olball coach

          I believe she was one of two or three Asian looking women standing to the left of the mail box (from your pik). One was the girlfriend of one of the Nordin brothers – who he lifted over the barricade just before the 2nd bomb went off – she was uninjured, he lost a leg. The Chinese girl your referring to (IMO) was behind the mailbox at the time of the explosion.

        • Missie Baker

          Since we cannot “see” behind the mailbox in the crowd shot, it’s possible the two Asian women were standing as you describe, or behind the brothers & friends. Post-explosion, in the photo of the DT-lookalike by the transformer-like box, they are not among the visible victims by the mailbox, though… I see only the head and exposed legs of individual I believe to be Mr. Fucarile, poor man.

          Here’s the only photo I see, two possible-Asian women standing one either side of the black lamp post–perhaps they turned to run West as others near the explosion had described. (link: top photo)

          http://postimagesBB.tumblr.com

        • olball coach

          exactly the photo I was referring to – the taller women with longer hair is the girlfriend of one of the Nordin brothers. The blond women (?). The Asian women behind the mailbox is most likely the one your looking for. Unless – there was some additional movement between the picture taken and the bomb blast – and the women your looking for moved into that vicinity.

        • DM

          How much time passed between the photo and the blast??

        • olball coach

          I’ll do this from memory as I am in a hurry. My guess is less than a minute. I base this on the photo (above) provided by LE – and the description of what he was doing as told by Aaron Hern’s father. To the far left of the picture (out of view) there is a young boy in a grey hoodie (Martin Richards older brother), an older Mexican kid (in view) Aaron Hern leaning over the rail, Jane Richard (green jacket), and Martin Richard (standing on the rail) watching. Behind them and to the right (from DT look right on a straight line) is Aaron’s father – looking ahead (partial head shot, dark hair, stubble), walking through the crowd. Confirmed by picture in the Post.

          Aaron’s father said (Washington Post article) that he and his son were walking towards the finish line (early news accounts assumed they were at the finish line) – when his son ran ahead to join his friend (older Mexican kid) – Dad lost track of Aaron and walked right by him (picture) when the first bomb went off he looked ahead for Aaron – then the second blast went off – he retraced his steps and found Aaron on the ground a huge gash in his leg lying next to Martin Richard. He says he watched Martin die. The friend, Mexican kid was also injured.

          Now the photo provided by LE is one of two – of DT standing at blast site 2. One is this one walking away and the second is shown below. These photos of DT’s head have been shopped. And I base this on the backgrounds. The black man standing to the right of DT does not change his posture or facial expression in either photo. However, he has changed location. In the above he is standing to the right of the decorative store front column of the Fish Market restaurant and in the photo below he is standing to the left. An overhead photo of site 2 shows a permanent divider (several feet high) between the 2 restaruants. It is unlikely this man moved – in a matter of seconds and assumed the exact same posture and facial expression.

          It is also unlikely the photographer moved. Because the angle of the photo below is the same as one above and this is so because it captures the same same background column and foreground objects, railing, mail box, blond lady (victim) and man in blue hocky(?) shirt – as does the photo above.

          one or both of these photos is shopped.

          Now, down feed I posted a video from a news station somewhere in the South – of guy who was photographing the race with his Iphone. He photographed DT standing at least 3 trees back from the blast site (2) tree. The picture is time stamped at 1:44pm – the bomb went off at 1:52. When compared to the description of his movements and the time taken – prior to the blast in the criminal complaint – it again is at least questionable how did he do all that in the time alloted and not be noticed, or stand out. This guy never sent his photo in to the FBI because his battery died and he didnt retrieve the photo until he got home.

          Finally, someone else posted here, that the criminal complaint states DT placed the black backpack (it is clearly grey in the photo) following bomb blast 1 and walked away. One would assume that after bomb blast 1 went off people at site 2 would have heard it and responded – but the picture taken shows people watching the race and enjoying themselves.

          This is a better picture than the one above because it is not cropped and you can see the grey hoodie boy (Martin’s older brother).
          https://securecdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/509/9932/original.jpg

        • olball coach

          This is a better photo than the one I mentioned above as it is not cropped and shows the grey hoodie boy (Martins brother). This link might be easier – http://postimagesbb.tumblr.com/

        • olball coach

          blah blah blah – but and its a big BUTTTTT there are things you have brought up that a competent defense will kick arce on – just dont think “the whole thing is fake ” defense is going to fly. Sorry – admire your passion – but you’ve got to keep an anchor in the real story too.

      • olball coach

        this, along with several photos I posted down feed or on another post are the most interesting photos I can find – it is clear the backwards white hat is several places at once – and that is something I would think a competent defense attorney is going to exploit —-and I am sure there are more photos and videos available in to them in discovery.

      • olball coach

        the white hat guy in this picture is wearing white shoes – DT was wearing black shoes.

        • Missie Baker

          First, you are back and on a tear! Re: the shoe, it might a white shoe (other foot is blurred but looks darker) or it could be a cup or waxed paper–there is other debris around dropped by bystanders, and this is in front of a Starbucks. So, I wasn’t convinced it was his shoe when I first saw it.

  • barbara

    30 count indictment comes in for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/27/justice/massachusetts-tsarnaev-indictment
    Officer Sean Collier’s shooting death is one of the counts.

    • olball coach

      they cant find the 5’11” 200 lb Mexican with the cowboy hat who was id’d several times that night – or…….fill in your favorite conspiracy theory,

  • barbara

    Feds want Ibragim Todashev’s roommate jailed and out of the country by Monday. What does she know, and why do they want her out so fast?

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/06/28/potential-witness-fbi-shooting-inquiry-ordered-remain-jail-until-she-leaves/wcf3uUPv3rWVpyCeKYZpAM/story.html

  • medianotes6

    Listening carefully to the Cambridge and Boston police scanner feeds, archived at broadcastify.com, it is clear that Collier’s gun was not on him when he was found, that it was not in the car, it had been taken. It was recovered in the area as the feeds continue.
    Yet, a Boston Globe articles, like many others state that the gun was the reason they killed Officer Collier:

    “There was apparently an attempt to yank it and they couldn’t get it and left.”

    • olball coach

      and several minutes later the gun is reported found at/around 15 Vasser Street by an officer who also has an eye witness of the same guy who robbed the 7/11 on Mass Ave. 5’11’, 200 lbs, Mexican, dark clothes – this same suspect was described that night as being seen out front of the Marriot on Main down the street from the shooting.

      • medianote6

        Yes, I guess what I’m trying to say is that the gun wasn’t in the car, but that the authorities said it was in the car, giving details of why and how it was left there in support of their narrative. What happened with the gun was very different from their story. This means they didn’t just reach to fabricate a motive for the killing, they lied to fabricate it.

        • Mervi Ketola

          Hi. Could you tell, maybe give a link, where from, I could listen to that scanner chat? I have not heard about this info before. Thanks!

      • Mervi Ketola

        Hi there. Could you tell where from I could listen to that scanner chat? I have not heard about this info before. Thanks!

        • medianotes6

          Olball coach might have a better route, but here’s what I did:
          http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/6254/web
          takes you to the live Boston Feed; the
          link ‘feed archives’ button beneath takes you to the Boston scanner archives page:
          http://www.broadcastify.com/archives/feed/6254/?rl=rr
          For the Cambridge feed:
          http://www.broadcastify.com/archives/
          Choose US>Mass>Middlesex
          A list pops up – the feed I’m listening to is the 5th one on the list:
          “Cambrige Police, Fire and PW”
          There are others there too.

        • Mervi Ketola

          Thank you so much for your help!

        • olball coach

          This is a professional recording of police scanner traffic from 10:21 pm on 4/18 – to 9:00 am 4/19.
          As I describe below – there are multiple agency feeds – Boston, Cambridge, MIT, Boston Fire – and maybe Middlesex. This begins minutes before Collier calls in “officer down.” Elsewhere down this feed I have several times described multiple discrepancies between the official narrative of that night and what is reported here by officers in the field – as well as by multiple key videos posted down feed. My working theory thus far is that the brothers where crusing this neighborhood for a reason. They returned to it several times in the evening before the shoot out(s). I say shoot outs because on the feed you will hear reports of at least three seperate incidences of officers taking fire in three seperate locations – this is backed up by video. I think they were coming in to be picked up by handlers and that is why there are there were three seperate shoot outs. And that is why LE gave the neighborhood a 24 hour colonoscopy. Finally, the last place the officers took fire was at Lincoln and Spruce where they eventually found the Mercedez – DT escaped into the open backyards and was later found a block away in the boat. The 20 block door to door search missed his hiding place by technically one block and a couple hundred feet. Why? Because that may not be DT on trial. I dont know – listen for yourself and make up your own mind.

        • Missie Baker

          ” I think they were coming in to be picked up by handlers and that is why there are there were three separate shoot outs.”
          I’ve begun listening to these scanner broadcasts from this you-tube source, assuming them to be un-tampered captures. I’m up to the 12:21 am segment, just the point where the LEO states there are guys running between houses, throwing bombs (or grenades.) I don’t believe this was part of the official narrative, although we’ve seen mention of it on video interviews, etc. (so I don’t know how it fits if I’m remembering correctly)
          Relative to your working theory about handlers–are you theorizing handlers to be foreign terrorists, foreign govt,, one of the alphabet agencies, simple rogues, or something else? (I’m assuming you meant the first or second group…) I’d guess he’s not a popular figure here, but I keep coming back to the former CIA expert on MSNBC, Bob Baur, who knows how IED are made, flavors attributable to certain groups, how operations are built (the BMB certainly seems like one) and fail. He said repeatedly on air he felt nearly certain training and/or experience showed in the assembly of the IED, until the official narrative went to lone wolves, then his appearances fell off. (I plan on reading his books, now that I’ve done some searching on him.) He seems believable (for someone who made a successful career out of lying and was awarded a post-retirement medal for it!)
          DT? A stoner/Go-along with his brother or, as beginning of this article states, both were far from naïfs–they were involved in some serious mayhem. If anything, I’d almost believe TT was meant to work with Todashev until he broke his leg….but that’s really reaching.

        • olball coach

          1. You are referring to shootout #1 – these moments are first memorialized by the Ketzenberg photos – of them standing in the street in headlights of the Mercedes with the Honda behind them. Yes – the running through backyards is not mentioned in the official narrative. Google street maps Dexter and Laurel and you will see these are wide open large yard areas with little fencing between properties. Running through the yards to evade police makes a lot of sense.
          2. Handlers – I am thinking spooks and/or alphabet agency types. My guess is that TT was recruited by Uncle Ruslan/Graham Fuller. It wasnt until the Russain FSB contacted the FBI that he shows up on the domestic radar. The FBI became aware of whatever he was doing and why and for whom at this time – and his file was kicked way up the food chain. And that is why he is able to travel to Russia without hinderance.
          3. TT and maybe JT have some role in the Boston Marathon op.
          4. Among many things we learn from Momma T (after the shootout) that TT was called a day or two after the bombing by the FBI – the full context of that conversation is not reported – except that TT tells her – he tells the FBI “that is your problem.” Both brothers by all accounts appear to go about their lives like before – as if nothing happened.
          5. DT does twitter something however in response to someones comments about the bombing – I dont recall the exact wording – but it was something to the effect – dont believe everything you see. Why? What did he know.
          6. Now during the four days from the day of the bombing to Thursday afternoon the FBI admits to not having shared any information regarding what it knows of TT. Indicative of how high up this is classified – the FBI had two officials on the regional Terrorist Task Force – made up of Boston PD, FBI, Homeland Security and state officials.
          7. The CNN reporting of an arrest and pending arraignment is suddenly called off and a bomb threat is called for the same court house. That plays a role – but I dont know.
          8. Finally, Thursday afternoon – the FBI asks the public for help and issues the photos. That is when DT drives home from college and things get going Thursday night.
          9. I think once the FBI decided to go after them – their handlers called them in. They circled that neighborhood at least three times that evening – and as you will hear once the dispatcher gets the car code for the lo-jack system they are immediately located at 81 Dexter. What I dont know is – where they stationary – parked their in someones house or where they moving. 81 Dexter is a couple of blocks from Laurel.
          Enuff for now.

        • Missie Baker

          Whew, that was a lot to digest. Along the same lines, I’ve been wondering about moderate Muslims and the CIA links/coincidences in this case, and even the relatively small number of Chechens** in the U.S. (**An ethnic group the Russians have readily labeled as ‘deadly.’) In the 9/11 aftermath, do you recall the very vocal self-flagellation over U.S. intelligence’s lack of Muslim “friends” who would have warned us about 9/11? (Much was also written about the lack of native Farsi-speakers on the CIA payroll, which I distinctly remember reading because I had to research the term ‘Farsi’.) Looking at the dates reported for the emigration of the Chechen families in this story, I have to wonder if the influx of this ethnic group wasn’t a small-scale calculated intelligence experiment, aimed at eventually ‘harvesting’ the teen and younger Muslim sons for counter-terrorism work when they matured. (Moving the families to the US would immerse them in Western culture and language, easing the recruiting effort among other things.) Looked at from this framework, it’s easy to imagine TT being a prime candidate.

        • olball coach

          Uncle Ruslan was heavily involved in the Chechen cause and help set up the NGO that TT eventually attended at least twice for training and fellowship.

        • Missie Baker

          Other than Infowars, Google doesn’t list US media reports on this:

          http://rt.com/news/attended-acts-terror-seminars-329/

          http://www.jamestown.org/regions/thecaucasus/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=41127&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=54&cHash=bbf6d2c4144f7ef13b5607bee26cfb69#.UeWCYcHnYY0

          Believe the American UMassD prof/foremost Chechnya expert is/was “acknowledged” to be former CIA. Seems likely he would have been involved in Jamestown Org, the NGO I believe you are referencing.

          There are so many threads, it’s tempting to surmise there is more than one set of objectives/players involved.

        • olball coach

          down thread somebody referenced Izvesta (?) the Russian Newspaper – So I started reading it using the Google translator. They dont speculate. They know TT was CIA and go on about it quite a bit. Putin has closed that school TT attended.
          Interesting twist – Ibragrim Todaseve – the dead boxing friend – His father is/was mayor or some higher up mucky muck of that region/district/city (??) that Jamestown was located in. Hmmmmm?

        • Missie Baker

          With all the renewed interest (hearing and now the “controversial” RS cover) your theories are sufficiently compelling, please consider deleting here and moving your two summaries up thread for new readers, I’m afraid they are getting lost in the all the back & forth on the more dated comments.

        • olball coach

          how far into the scanner traffic are you? as I mentioned a month or so ago – I have transcribed several hours from the 18th and 19th – but I cannot find in which file I dumped it. I have all my drafts except my final one – Grrrr.

        • Missie Baker

          Sorry for the delay in responding, I was just slumping after reading the RS article, wherein DTs guilt is simply assumed to be a factual finding. And yet am I crazy for thinking there is zero evidence presented to the public other than the unofficial sidewalk backpack photo–the origins of which are masked behind a subreddit thread locked to anyone not invited (& no doorbell I could see?) (While the sidewalk bag photo attribution by the W Post and others is to ‘surveillance tape’ and Twitter–but a twitter search turns up zero.) I don’t believe the FBI is infallible–no one else is, why should they be? I actually believe in the Constitution and the court system-IUPG.
          I’m left with the question: if dear Jeff Bauman was able to create a profile for TT (dressed like so many others), why has no one on the sidewalk where DT stood for 4 minutes (or was it longer) come forward to say–oh yes, saw him standing there. (Wasn’t there an ICE officer there at the front of the Forum who was injured in the blast–he was interviewed by CNN Jake Tapper–have to look again.) Ms. Sdoia comments she saw the bag expand and then explode at her feet (poor lady) as she turned to run–but that seems to be the only relevant comment, and she had her back to events.
          Per your question, I’ve only listened through 1:50 a.m. from the you-tube link you posted above. No transcripts yet because I find these recordings confusing, and suggestive of three conclusions: LE didn’t know who they had, they didn’t follow DT to Lincoln & Spruce for some reason, there were other incidents underway that interfered with command decisions. Lots of LE were in cars and driving madly around, jamming traffic, calling for street directions, standing by to help but unsure & calling for deployment directives. I particularly liked the sarcastic frustrated MIT chief whose man couldn’t get a photo in the field from the MBTA cops–bureaucracy.

        • olball coach

          ” I’m left with the question: if dear Jeff Bauman was able to create a profile for TT (dressed like so many others), why has no one on the sidewalk where DT stood for 4 minutes (or was it longer) come forward to say–oh yes, saw him standing there. ”
          Remember the video down post of the kid from Florida who didnt email in his photo of DT standing, watching the race back at the far end of the fish restaraurant? He didnt mail the photo in because his Iphone died or something and he didnt get it to work until he got back home – pulled up his pictures and there stands DT in the lower right hand column – time stamped at 1:44 or 2:44 not sure – but just 8 mins from the first blast….No one stepped forward to id him because he didnt get that far – eh? Reading the complaint – how did he move into position, stand there for what 3-4 minutes, make/take a call, and drop his grey bag which turned into a black bag and walk away following the 1st bomb blast – while everyone else was still watching the race – all under 8 mins. without being noticed?
          If the kid in court is him – then negotiations are under way for the FBI and LE to save face in exchange for him to leave the country – Or there isnt going to be a trial. I just dont see how a defense attorney could ignore what’s all over the scanner feeds and not call into question the official narrative?
          Yes, local LE didnt know they were the BMB’s – they thought they were chasing down a cop killer.
          Interesting how they didnt follow the Black Mercedes to Lincoln and Spruce – immediately following the gun fight at Dexter and Laurel – but then later it is reported by officers coming upon the scene that shots are fired – ” we need long guns”. Good question.
          I have wondered about that picture – because the first picture released – presumably by MIT was the full uncropped shot which you could see Tamerlan or a look alike standing outside with the goofy white on and DT with his arms full of Red Bull and junk food. Later pictures are all cropped and just focus on DT.
          What about the BOLO’s for the 2 middle eastern men – 5’7″ slender, one dark and the other clean shaven. Right after the report of the carjacking coming in – I have questioned how could “Danny” and the Shell clerk get those descriptions so wrong?
          Anyway – nuff for now

        • olball coach

          one last thing – have you got to part where it is announced that the FBI has arrived and then – maybe 30 secs later the CO orders everyone to go to Channel 12(?) – and thereafter everything becomes stilted, bureaucratic talk – regarding the searches and running down rumors.

        • Missie Baker

          No, but I’m surely close, it’s 1:50 AM when I stopped. (I hope I’m listening to the actual live feeds, and not something crafted by RegoApps from multiple feeds. I’m on the you-tube link you posted above to 5-0 Radio.) Truthfully, processing the content is challenging while simultaneously sorting out the jargon, the accents, and the context. But I do believe I’ve heard a lot of inexplicable shooting….

        • olball coach

          I am pretty sure the first 45 mins to an hour is strictly MIT – then the feeds seem to broaden to include a fire, some domestic issues, and then it was multiple sources reporting on the same channel just after the car jacking.

        • Missie Baker

          In answer to your many good observations, I too stumbled upon that WESHTV video of DT and felt the ground shift–it just didn’t jive with the Fed’s accounting in the original petition. (and now the G prosecution appears to have backed themselves into a corner–I totally agree with you about saving face…how are they going to wiggle out of this? They seem to be sticking to their story, perhaps planning to brazen it out? After all, a fair trial by impartial jurors would require finding bodies who don’t have access to the media in Boston–impossible. But if DT’s defense team cannot craft a counter story with these disconnects, then they were never meant to provide a true defense, which would be so very sickening and sad.)
          Those BOLO are like from another planet. (I cannot conjure up a better way to describe it.) So, why did they latch onto DT and TT–other than the carjacking and the tracking system report on the car. Did you wonder–was it even them in the car with the mysterious Danny–who first couldn’t speak English. (so much misreporting, so much disinformation, who was feeding all this to the media, was it purposeful misdirection or just incompetence?)

        • olball coach

          First – if for any reason it doesnt go to trial – then LE will have bought the family off and both DT and TT are likely alive. Uncle Ruslan’s “losers” press conference was patsey/spin – damage control – for the CIA BMB screw up. But Momma T wasnt having nothing of it – Her squaking is the only reason we are even here speculating. The box they are in is: 1) how to avoid being exposed, 2) how to obtain public justice, 3) how to keep the family quiet. Money can fix almost anything.

          Second, those seconds between when the investigator called in the car-jacking from the shell station and when the 1st BOLO is issued – is the turning point in the evening. Because that over turned the earlier BOLO regarding the 7-11 suspect and the Collier shooting (the Mexican in the cowboy hat) – Suddenly the connection is now 7-11, Collier, carjacking and 2 middle eastern guys 5’7″) But the remainder of the information regarding BMBr’s (why? the investigator at the Shell Station had to know that too) is not relayed to the officers in the field.
          As far as the local officers, knew it was 2 middle eastern cop killers they were after.

          3) I have suspected for a while, that it was TT and a handler in the car with Danny. DT was driving the Sedan.

          4) Misdirection? I am starting a project organizing about 600 articles I have collected – based on source, what was said, and by chron – and compare the eventual official narrative – against what else has been reported. I am looking for the anatomy of the total information structure.
          But to answer your question – I think misdirection certainly came in the early days after the 19th from the unnamed sources – Boston PD (Davis seemed to be fairly straight forward) and the FBI spokespeople its 50/50.

        • Missie Baker

          Sounds like an amazing compendium!! Quickly, here’s the link to the ICE officer on the Forums patio–5-10 feet from the explosion (interesting wording.) Don’t know if you have this one or not. (to my earlier point about the sidewalk bag photo)

          http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/24/boston-bombings-is-business-and-personal-for-one-ice-official/

        • Missie Baker

          Relative to the DT sidewalk bag photo, here’s a video (see 1:04) capturing the male runner in the photo. He’s milling around what might be the edge of the first site (not sure) and speaking with uniformed LEO–state trooper, possibly.

        • olball coach

          I am not following the connection. What is it you want me to see and relative what. No sweat – okay – all of us are so focused on what we see that we take for granted everyone sees the same – so, explain it to me what you want me to see and then I will be able to see/fit it into my framework – and give you feedback – yes/no or indifferent.

        • Missie Baker

          At 1:04, we see the blue outfitted runner from the DT photo of the white backpack on sidewalk at his feet front of Forum. Here’s the same runner, now maybe ten yards past the first explosion (cardboard box with “A” places it–he’s right in front of the shattered plate glass windows,) first responders running toward the site and the injured, LEO haven’t yet been able to sweep the runners off the course to safety. How long would it have taken blue runner to get from 755 to 661 Boylston? 15-20 seconds?This video snippet appears to be just after first explosion…to your point about when the DT photo might have been taken, and the other poster’s comment re: the complaint timeline.

        • olball coach

          got it – giving this several replays for clarity.

        • olball coach

          Google maps say its .10 miles – and takes (drum role………) @ 2 minutes to walk. Given it was the last 10th of the BM – he is running not much faster than most of us would walk. So, say one minute and 30 secs. Barely within the range of believability – but way on the fringe nonetheless.

        • olball coach

          Okay – think I’ve narrowed it down a bit. btw: nice catch on this. Now – I have a picture (and I am looking for more) that shows our man in blue right smack dab in the middle of this photo, appearing to dodge, or recoil from the second explosion.
          The pik appears to be taken from the scaffolding/ornate podium to the right and behind the finish line. I know there is a video of these same moments from the same angle. The video should prove conclusively it was him. We we should see him continue down to the finish as shown above.
          That puts the original picture of him back running past site 2 at just seconds before the first bomb blast. Like everyone else running, he probably slowed or paused altogether before the second blast got him moving again.
          I’ll keep looking for the video.
          pss: did you see the new posting? It confirms the scanner feed evidence we have been listening too.
          ps – found my transcript file – still needs some edits – but it is intact and covers from 10:20 pm – to about 3:00 am.

        • Missie Baker

          Yes, that posting’s photo was of the 7-11 perp…whew! Now who of that age wouldn’t know 7-11 has superior CCTV in their stores to foil just this sort of robbery? A foreigner, perhaps? (I’m reaching) Still, it is an astonishingly clear facial image for some one wearing a hat…didn’t he ever watch America’s Dumbest Criminals? Am devoting another painful hour tonight to transcribing MIT 30 minutes–maybe I can eek out another minute or two.

          The off-balance figure in the above photo, directly beneath the center overhanging stoplight, does look like blue runner… I haven’t seen this video, but I was searching stills for confirmation as well. Curiosity: Blue runner is the only runner we see in the entire length of the DT sidewalk/bag on ground Forum still capture…and yet, look, here he is surrounded by runners. That still of DT enabled us to see clearly all the faces of the victims.

        • olball coach

          of course Boy Blue now changes the timeline considerably. How can he be running past the Forum at the same time DT is “supposed” to have dropped his bag under that tree – after blast #1 and is pictured walking away. But MSM video clearly shows him within seconds, seen runnng back into the scene of blast site 1 – of course after conferring with his buddies from Craft – and then seen pulling barriers down and directing medical response on site? Boy Blue is interesting. How did you know?

        • olball coach

          Whew – another SHIFT moment.
          Now – how can defense counsel not know what we have found? And worse, how can the prosecution not know as well? I think the fix is being negotiated someway and this is going to go away conveniently.

        • Missie Baker

          Public Defenders are overworked and underpaid–it’s a calling, not a job. Judy Clarke and Miriam Conrad (she is the Chief for 3 states) have other cases besides DT. It’s why they need the free law student bodies from that third attorney** Miriam requested be brought in to assist with the death penalty if Holder agrees to seek it. (He would be taking a big chance, IMO, if he does. Yet public opinion is so heated…and understandably so, don’t you think?) **3rd attorney w/be: “David Bruck, a professor at Washington and Lee University School of Law. He has directed the school’s death penalty defense clinic since 2004.” If they were to go to trial (agree with you, never happen) all the legwork will be done by the students in the clinic–it’s good practice and gold on the resume. Doubt the PD office has the time, staff or $$$ to really mount a defense against the huge data collection machine we saw the FBI launch via news media imagery.

        • olball coach

          Okay – now I understand the previous post a day or so back. Okay up to speed now.

        • Missie Baker

          I’m sorry, everything you are writing is making sense, it’s just making me feel a little dizzy (again.) I was curious because: how many times has an individual captured by accident in a “famous” photo come forward with “that’s me!” I am the person running past the monster… and blue runner hasn’t stepped forward or been “found” by the media. (If he’s LE, it could be awkward.)

        • Missie Baker

          Check out the running figure to the right of the top/first video at this Orange County Register site–starting about 52 seconds into–he is noticeable because he is running back toward the first explosion. Doesn’t it look very like blue runner had just finished the marathon, and now is acting like a LEO or first responder, except in earlier snippet I found, he didn’t dive into chaos to aid victims….hmmm. Here’s the link; http://www.ocregister.com/articles/marathon-504164-boston-finish.html
          He darts past very quickly.

        • olball coach

          Yes, I walk back the above photo I posted. Our Boy Blue was clearly already done – and runs back into the scene after he conferred with his buddies ? He is now very interesting all right. He is the first one into the barricades as shown partially by your clip and by these:

          what is this about you think? Coincidence?

        • Missie Baker

          Amazing!! you found these. What would Sherlock H say?? Another freaky coincidence, I guess, in a muddle of many. It seems premature to speculate, doesn’t it?

        • Missie Baker

          Just re-read Crim complaint. Agent states DT drops his backpack on sidewalk at 2:45 and then stands same spot for 4 full minutes, making a call, taking a photo, before first explosion has everyone turning their heads to stare East, when he turns West and walks calmly away, leaving “knapsack.” So, quite possible, blue runner could have been running past DT/Forum during the 4 minutes, and still made it to finish line in time to do all that we have seen in videos you’ve found. But it’s still a coincidence, as is the completely empty street area in front of victims other than blue runner.

        • olball coach

          Hmmm?

          Okay – remember this vid?

          this picture puts DT to the outer edge of the fish restaurant at 2:44 pm minus (at least it appears to) his backpack. The photographer and the news host speculate he had already dropped his pack…
          Regardless – thats some hustle to get from there through the crowd to his drop position. And I didnt realize he stood in place for 4 minutes? Standing right there in front of the Nordin Brothers and friends and no one noticed this kid in a white hat scurrying over. Didnt block anyones view – or draw any attention?
          Hmmm?

        • Missie Baker

          Yes, it is this curious fact that has disturbed me. (and is in stark contrast to Jeff Bauman’s eyewitness account of TT)

          http://youtu.be/Pk82pBGQK_c

          (.12) Interviewer tells Norden group friend…and “they didn’t notice the guy setting down his backpack..” and Bryan agrees.
          (see my earlier video link to ICE officer on Forum patio, giving his account, blown into restaurant, and he doesn’t mention DT either, and I believe he says he’d been standing there awhile.)
          Isn’t there an oddly-colored FBI photo showing DT with back to street, on his cell phone, possibly from Forum’s CCTV tape? Per the crim complailnt, that could have been within 30 seconds of the first explosion.
          The Wesh2TV account’s photo didn’t show DT’s backpack on his shoulder, although it’s possible it was heavy, and he had shifted it or set it down. (but as per the article on this site, it didn’t look heavy in the FBI “suspect”photos.) And crim complaint didn’t mention him retrieving it from the ground before moving up to Forum, just that DT had his right hand thumb hooked under the strap and cell phone in the other hand as he made his 15 second walk to his “position.” (Have responses relative to your two previous posts, I’m sorting them out IMH.)

        • olball coach

          Here is the piks you are referring to.
          So – he is on the phone 30 secs prior to blast, at 12 secs he drops bag and walks – meanwhile blast 1 just occurred and everyone is “supposed” to be looking their left.
          The strange thing about these two piks, I pointed out early, is the back ground changes. The large black man behind him appears on either side of the decorative column without seemingly to change his disposition. And it couldnt have a simple matter of sliding a couple of feet. Because running towards the street from roughly that column is a 4ft high cement barrier.
          Any – I dont see the ICE officer. Can you make him out?

        • Missie Baker

          I have not been able to find any source on line that will definitely attribute the above photo with DT and his backpack to the FBI. I could not find it on the official FBI site. There was a google search hit on Fox News TV claiming they had a confirmation from the FBI they were the source, but when I tried to open the video, my screen crashed, and now I cannot find it. Just a lot of uncertainty–Twitter, Buzzfeed, surveillance tape, Reddit, individual’s video. I also can find no credible story online that the FBI officially (not anonymously) credits this photo as illustrating DT has set down his backpack and is walking away… What I find is the Class A MSM presents it as “it purports to show DT setting his bag by Martin Richard and walking away” (psychopath) The lesser media don’t even offer this caveat, just assure the reader… “He did it and here’s proof.” I hate to send you off on a wild goose chase, I’ve spent several hours on line looking again for confirmation without results. With your meticulous indexing, have you discovered that this final photo is officially acknowledged by FBI?

        • olball coach

          utube of the FBI pressor releasing the “pictures”. the one you are asking about is up on there board, what is not clear is whether this a photo or video capture. Judging from the way the MSM has reported it – it’s a photo.

          http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fbi-releases-photos-video-of-boston-bombing-suspects/2013/04/18/948b2cb6-a86b-11e2-8302-3c7e0ea97057_video.html?hpid=z2

        • Missie Baker

          Yes, but FBI-board has just the DT head shot from this photo–doesn’t show the backpack at his feet. I’m too tired to recall if DesLauriers (sp?) said that profile head shot of DT was of him leaving the explosion site and heading West…I’ll have to rewatch entire vid again–

        • olball coach

          it is the same photo cropped just to show his face – just as they had done with the phone call shot. – I dont know if he specifically says that – but the Glob and WaPo stories I read on the pictures all state the images were released by today and the only ones the public is supposed to use to help find the bad guys.

        • Missie Baker

          So far, we are in agreement on Glob & WaPo and FBI directive–just these images show suspects, use nothing else to find bad guys, etc. Do we differ on whether we both believe the backpack (unseen because it’s head shot only as released by FBI) was at his feet in this shot/capture? (I question it’s authenticity) ???

        • olball coach

          I am basing my skeptisim on these two photos because of the anamolous backgrounds. Yes, I think the same picture showing on the FBI board is the same one – uncropped – which includes a the crowd and blue runner – and therefore the bag at his feet. But I also, think the bag at his feet could be shopped as well and certainly the walk away shot just looks awkward with his nose so high – and that guy coming towards him and the yellow bill of his hat creeping up DT’s nose.
          So, I guess the answer is yes.
          I think the release of the full picture was related to public pressure to “prove” it. There was skeptical voices rising all over the internet (Alex Jone) and so they had to show more and then we started seeing more pictures.
          But regardless – the problem for LE isnt going to be whether pictures where photoshopped or not. The fact the time line is contradictory is irrefutable. You can’t photoshop time.

        • Missie Baker

          In terms of ‘prove-it’ no question the sidewalk shot with the backpack was the one that convinced the public, without a trial, DT did the deed, and doubly heinous to set a bomb next to an eight-year-old. So, devil’s advocate, DT isn’t walking away, just standing and wasting time until he has to make the FBI statement’s cell phone call. Little Aaron is in place, his papa passes him by (10-20 feet ahead, it’s unclear) and first explosion occurs next block. Blue runner must be already end of course, and darting back to help finish line victims. Question again: how long before Mr. Hern realized he’d lost track of his son, 20′ isn’t very far vs. how long it took Blue Runner to finish the race, (you stated maybe a little more than a minute?) and then dart back to help as we saw in video…that’s the gist of it, yes? Before I proceed further, I need to review Mr. Hern’s video interview, because I remember him saying he’d walked past Aaron, the second explosion left him dazed, he went more than a block forward (would that be East–likely West away from first bomb site…retracing his steps?) with his daughter before he realized Aaron wasn’t with him, he had to run back more than a block to find him, and found his son injured.

        • olball coach

          I am going to condense both posts to here.
          Hern is located right above the guy (He is in blue sweats and a visor) chatting up Ms. Sdoia. You can only see part of his face. But I am pretty confident that’s Hern and it matches the description of his pictures in WaPo. I havent seen any video interviews – just what I read in the Post and Globe. I dont remember him saying how far he moved – only that he was stunned for a moment grabbed his girl headed to the finish line to meet his wife and realized Aaron wasnt there and back he went.
          But I see what your getting at – a real conunundrumrun I’d say. There are two ways out: 1) DT isnt leaving as you say and is standing there for another minute and some change – and that isnt Mr. Hern, or 2) DT isnt leaving and that is Hern who stops momentarily to look for his daughter and/or Aaron, or was held up by the crowd….until blue runner was finished.
          Of course there is a third alternative: How about the official narrative is bs, the picture is shopped and we are wasting our time.
          I am tired and need to take a fresh look at this tomorrow.

        • olball coach

          all pictures to this point had him carry that back pack with his right shoulder – and as the complaint says – his thumb under the strap.

        • Missie Baker

          Well, bear with me. The Feds have laid out their initial evidentiary findings very carefully in the crim complaint. We have to address these if we hope to maintain credibility. And right now, I see issues. Here’s their timeline:

          2:42: DT left alone in the crowd by TT, half a block down from Forum (confirmed by the above WESH2TV/Daytona boy’s photo)

          2:45 DT starts walking towards Forum and arrives in 15 seconds to plant himself front of restaurant. He’s carrying his cell and has thumb hooked into his backpack. (Photo link below confirms this–looks like CCTV tape–every color has a blue-cast to it)

          He sets his bag down and doesn’t stray from this “spot” for a full four minutes–which makes some sense–would you walk away, even a few feet, from your backpack w/a bomb in it? (Complaint states they have a photo of this bag-dropping event taken from the opposite side of the street–meaning it’s visible between the legs…or he bends down and when he comes back up, no bag…or they see bag’s strap disappear from his shoulder. Deval said he was told by FBI they had chilling video of this event, but they didn’t show it to him. Public only has the un-credited/source unknown blue runner photo, which appears to show runner passing him during this four minute period-minus 30 seconds with bag on the ground) (side-bar: Fed’s state in complaint DT has his back to Forum, facing street, when he sets the bag as his feet…Blue runner photo shows a side view of DT…doesn’t match Fed description. Also, I wonder if TT and DT knew there was a Forum camera on roof above patio, and DT was keeping his back to camera purposely, but missed L&T’s camera corner of bldg.? Plausible?)

          c)

        • Missie Baker

          c) 2:48:30 (approx.) DT has kept his cellphone in his hand, taken a photo, and now lifts it to his ear and speaks for 18 seconds. (after manipulating it first) A few seconds later, first explosion occurs. (implying he may have set it off remotely) He briefly turns East as well, then moves calmly West. Ten seconds later, second explosion.

          The Photo you have of DT, facing the street on his cellphone, standing between Ms. Sdoia & blue-shirt man, with the black man out of position, has him moved away from his position by tree & the bag in the Blue Runner photo. (It doesn’t match with the Fed description of his actions, unless his knapsack wasn’t leaning against the tree–so bag could have been photoshopped in, or he set the bag down behind Ms. Sdoia, closer to the mailbox. When she turned to run, we assumed she went to her right, but maybe the Norden group of friends were crowding/blocking that way, and she was headed around the mailbox. Impossible to know for certain from her interviews I’ve followed. She’s a cool lady.)

          If he kept his back to the known Forum camera (although I’ve read Forum owner said LE told him his CCTV helped ID suspect) then the FBI head shot of him facing West would indeed have been of him preparing to leave the scene…but it’s out of sequence, both for the Crim complaint–he doesn’t leave until everyone turns East, and Blue Runner’s timing is off here as well.

          We also see the two teenage girls between Ms. Sdoia and possibly Ms. Richard–and no evidence they were victims of explosion, so Blue Runner photo likely wasn’t taken ten seconds before the second explosion. It’s a compilation shot, I believe.

        • olball coach

          One question: How do you account for the Robert Hern statement and photo? He is seen walking through the Nordin group looking for Aaron – when the second blast occurs about 15 feet from where he was – I am betting probably closer to 20-30 feet since he was not injured. But regardless, he is walking through at the same time blue runner is passing by. That must have been roughly 15 – 20 secs from that snapshot.

        • Missie Baker

          Fall back, regroup, etc. Little Aaron is there, but I do not see papa Hern…where is he in that Norden group? And agree the timing is off if indeed that is DT walking away, since he is further away from Ms. Sdoia that that pic of him standing between her & the blue-shirt fellow to her left.
          Is he baldish man, head turned West, white sweatshirt, behind blonde and East side of mailbox? He looks chunkier there…

        • olball coach

          bald man looking west is Steve Byrn, friend of the Nordin brothers.

        • olball coach

          Wait…..I am assuming this is lifted verbatim from the complaint – “as everyone is turning their heads to stare East, when he turns West and walks calmly away, leaving “knapsack.”

          that pik is of him walking away – that pik was “sold” by FBI – as DT – the bomber, walking casually, “smirking” away moments after the first bomb blast.

          no one in that pik is responding to blast #1 and that bag is down and he is walking away.

          Blue Runner is passing at that moment.

          Need to reread the Aaron Hern acccount. The only other account of someones actions that gives us a timing reference.

          Something missing here -

        • olball coach

          Okay – Aaron had run ahead from his dad to stand with an older friend (name escapes me) to cheer his mom on – dad walked past Aaron and this accounting is captured by the photo.

          Aarons father says – ““The second bomb went off maybe 15 feet from where I was,” Alan Hern, Aaron’s father, told the “Today” show. “And Aaron and our friend’s son were much closer and that’s how they took the brunt of the explosion.”

          15 feet from the bomb puts him just outside the Forum or in front of Starbucks.
          So – no blue runner could not have run that last .10th of a mile in seconds, run through the finish line beyond the podiums out of view, and then we see him run back in to view following the bomb blast at site #1 – on the above videos.

          I think I can say pretty confidently that the official narrative regarding the timing around the moments before the bomb blast at site 2 is fabricated.
          Now its pretty clear the two piks from LE, with their anamolous backgrounds, and now this fabricated timing are frauds. Add to it the video of DT standing well away from the bomb site arguably without his backpack at 2:44, unnoticed, without drawing attention – and it becomes questionable whether he even made it to the Forum at all.

        • olball coach

          correction: he didnt run in to view until after blast 2 -

        • Missie Baker

          My replies are going to be out of order. First, you are unstoppable when you find a thread you wish to pursue…amazing. This site should hire you to write articles on this subject. You’d blow everyone away. Relative to our blue runner, I’d like to suggest a few other ideas for consideration: A) he wasn’t off-duty, but was part of race security, posing as a runner. I don’t know if there are 26.2 miles of metal barricades, but even if there are, I suspect LE plants officers among the racers at various points. Runners either know the score, or if they object, they are educated about the safety methodology and would let it drop–no LE are going to place. B) He was very physically fresh for a runner having completed 26+ miles–remember how quickly he sprinted over to explosion site #1 and started tearing into the barricade. I also wondered, considering how many other runners were sweaty and in abbreviated ‘runners’-shorts, short sleeves or tanks, if he might have had a concealed weapon beneath his long sleeves and very baggy, modest shorts. C) How did he come to be alone the entire length of DT sidewalk photo above, when a hundred yards ahead, he’s bunched up with many other runners heading into the last few yards towards the finish line? (and the long-range explosion site 2 photo–bunches of runners–this was the heaviest trafficked time of the race.) This detail could be a tag that this photo has been manipulated, as you suggest/believe. Or it could be a benign manipulation–they focused on him–nice clear shot of him in motion, then ‘built’ the remaining pieces on either side of him. Here’s an except from “The (London) Times” article:

          Investigators have found CCTV
          footage of a suspect apparently placing the second bomb near the finish line of
          the Boston Marathon.

          Federal agents have footage from
          a CCTV camera at the upmarket department store Lord & Taylor on Boylston Street, opposite the site of the second explosion. Digital enhancement
          techniques have apparently sharpened the image so that the FBI-led
          investigation now has a clear view of a man’s face.10:01
          AM April 18, 2013

          It’s not much, but we know DT’s face looks funny. And if LE evidence teams were capturing stills from surveillance tape, there could be odd shadows and blurs from movement of individuals in the crowd. (I think so, anyway.)
          After reflection, I’ve come away believing Blue Runner is probably a good guy.
          And D) He seems a cut above your average PD character. He could be a detective, I suppose, but his confident, authoritative body language when speaking to the uniformed officer makes me think FBI…possibly induced by watching too many cop dramas.

        • olball coach

          I was thinking pretty much the same thing about the blue runner.
          As far as I can determine, LE has hung themselves up by endorsing these pictures. By giving out a timing reference to the Phone Call and the Walk Away – the unintended photo of DT at 2:44, the unintended reference to where he was at the time of the 2nd blast by Robert Hern and then the all important blue runner and the video that absolutely contradicts their narrative – They have a problem.
          Another thing I noticed from reviewing the 100’s of photos and video – despite the overwhelming amount of photo evidence – there is no doubt tons more. I just couldnt help noticing how many people had there phones and cameras out – I wouldnt be surprised if we (the public) havent seen half of it.

        • Missie Baker

          An update to earlier search, on a sad note, the face of the second Chinese girl, post explosion second site, appears to have her sitting upright, back against the Forum patio fencing.

        • Missie Baker

          I think I get it, you are suggesting DT left the second explosion site well before 2:44 photo from Florida kid…”arguably without his backpack” or he never made it there at all. (It’s interesting to wonder if DT left that backpack elsewhere–maybe at the Mandarin Hotel literally across the street, where LE first (on 4/15) found a third “device” (possibly a dud) and then next day Deval dismissed the whole idea of additional “devices.” (Picking up the Baer comment–no one gets an IED right the first time–and two at once?)

        • olball coach

          Okay, yes I was heading in this direction and not articulating it well at all. Simply put, we have three moving parts to the 30 secs prior to blast 2. I am assuming Hern’s description and photo are true. I am assuming blue runner went by at that time as well.

          DT’s position in the picture and accounting in the complaint are problematic. It simply cannot be true that he was leaving the scene at the same time as Hern’s account and photo and blue runner running passing by (as this picture was taken). Cant happen.

          I have contended the backgrounds of the two pictures taken of DT while he was in position are problematic, and indicate some manipulation. You have pointed out his poitional changes are not noted in the complaint. We both agree it is odd no one from the Forum would recall him moving into position, changing postion to make a phone call – and/or standing there for at least 4 minutes – before moving on.

          Yes, I question whether he got there at all – or whether he had the backpack, as you suggest above.

          We have photos and video when the brothers arrived – and as they walked down Bolyston towards the finish line. The last shot together was at the next store front from 867 Bolyston.

          The next photo evidence is a picture from the FBI showing DT at an unknown section on Bolyston with phone in hand and pack on shoulder. I picked up that fragment of a picture of TT, on Bolyston, and he appears to be walking towards the finish line.

          The next picture evidence is the picture of DT at the outer edge of the Fish restaurant next to the Forum. It is stamped at 2:44. However, it is fairly clear from the picture he is not carrying the pack on his right shoulder as he was in every other picture we have of him.

          The next information regarding movement and action comes from the complaint. Leaving TT aside for now, what we dont know from the complaint is where DT began walking to get into place in front of the Forum. It is within reason to walk from his position at 2:44 to his position at 2:45.

          However, since Hern’s account and the blue runner precludes DT being in that position at the time of the photo – the complaint accounting must be incorrect.

          I am leaning towards, his walking to the position, taking a call and either walking through or turning around and leaving. He would have been photographed in positon, taking a call and leaving – thus making it fairly easy to shop him into the photo of the scene in the next few minutes. His presence would have been fleeting and not memorable.

          Now – what happened to the pack? It would have been hard for him to work his way across the street during the race – eh? There have been several sites that say he left with the pack and that it was shopped out. I dont know. I am thinking it was dropped elsewhere. And I dont think there was a bomb in it. I think it was a “can” of fireworks powder “meant for the dogs to find” – or so they were told. (I know I am leaping here, but its my story).
          Last thing – I have never been comfortable with the what appears to be a black rectangular box standing vertical (could be a shadow or deliberately shadowed) behind Mrs. Martin and the two girls, it almost looks like Mrs. Martins bended foot is leaning against it. The dark pants and shadows erase distinguishing lines but the tree is rather slender – shouldnt there be some light from behind showing through? I dont know.
          thats my story and what I am sticking to it, or at least until you throw another monkey wrench in.

        • Missie Baker

          As usual, your post just nails it.

          Meanwhile, here’s why you and I were flipping out about the WESH2TV photo of DT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaeTcnvS4ug I’m betting thiswas the fact pattern being reported in the media: DT began moving down the sidewalk at 2:42 toward Forum…(see video report MSM beg. 1:17) and our photographer’s camera shot was taken at 2:44…completely screwed up the FBI timeline. Now, I’m not paranoid or stupid, so there’s no way the FBI altered their crim complaint after it was filed and posted all over the net, but the original document (likely prereleased to a few sources) must have had different timing. (And the complaint can be modified if new evidence turns up.) This video report states it was the Forum surveillance camera that counted off the timing. (more to say on your post in a min)

        • olball coach

          what makes the WESH2TV photo capture so valuable is that – the pik didnt get sent right away to the FBI or LE and hence they couldnt bury it or manipulate it. Nope, the kids battery went dead – no way to charge it until he got home – and bingo there is this pik – days later. Notice it didnt get any national play. Your right, this one calls the crim complaint narrative into question?

        • Missie Baker

          So here’s the video interview of Alan Hern, in his own words describing events. He says he was 5 bodies or so “down” from Aaron, who was leaning on the barricade with his friend David he’d run ahead to find. (that’s the 15′ for dad from the second explosion, and why dad was uninjured) You’d written earlier you were reading WAPO and Glob accounts, I believe. Since I’m interpreting “down” to mean toward the finish line where they were headed to see the Mom cross, and little sister was maybe three or four people “down” from Aaron, they likely are not even in the DT sidewalk bag drop photo–too far to the West for us to see? (now, did you find an account from him where dad states he passed by Aaron? ref?)http://www.today.com/video/today/51567669#51567669

        • olball coach

          Okay – need to absorb this.
          in the TV interview – he is darker, and just a bit more balding than the guy I id’d as him. That may be photographic perspective and it may be real.

        • olball coach

          this report says the bombs where made with bb’s? why are all the doctors talking about nails, bolts, nuts, etc,? I have seen interviews where the victims are saying they have bits and pieces of nails and sharpnel left in there skin because removing it would be dangerous to their vision, hearing, breathing etc.,?

        • olball coach

          Okay – looked through my file and I re – searched the internet and nothing – to my contention that Aaron got ahead of him – lost track and walked by him. Nothing.

          I wouldnt make it up – as I have been saying it for months since I read it long before you drew my attention to the blue runner photo. But regardless, no evidence – it didnt happen.

          He is there on scene and I found this to back up his contention. He is standing in the far back ground just left of center, bald head, blue sweater/jacket and camera straps – Bingo!

          Now – this is still not fatal to my original contention that DT’s position in the photo and the criminal complaint – Hern’s account – and blue runner cannot coexist.

          Actually on its face alone – the FBI pik doesnt agree with the crim complaint – as long as blue runner is sitting there in that pik. And it pretty sloppy to say the least that “they” would select a pik that could so easily contradict their account. Of course, who would have guessed someone would have hunted these 100’s of videos and recognize the connection.

        • olball coach

          btw: yes agreed – Alan must have been in front of the Atlantic Fish Restaurant – just out of camera view – of now the iconic shot. Hmmm – wonder if you can see him from the 2:44 shot?

        • olball coach

          Nope, I cant. Darn.

        • Missie Baker

          Think I am yipping for joy…wow want to think this through again but have to GTS….tomorrow ….

        • Missie Baker

          Just two more comments:

          Mandarin Oriental Hotel (776 Boylston) outside in front; Lenox Hotel (61 Exeter) no location given; and Trinity & St. James Avenue (The Fairmont Copley is a few yards from this address on Google) “street”

          These were locations identified 4/15 as having unexploded devices, devices identified as real threats by Keating (2 devices) and Davis (1 device) until next day, when in a press conference, Patrick said–it was all an error, there were no more unexploded devices after all. (Although at around 4:48 on the 15th, there was very loud rattling explosion said to be the police detonating “something”–not the JFK Library blast) I agree DT couldn’t have darted across the street to Mandarin with the Marathon in full swing, but these retractions are just more oddities in a sea of them.

          And these reports of unexploded/suspicious bags etc. were also picked up from a police scanner. (Per Time & Boston Phoenix reporters) There was also the anonymous Sr. intelligence official who on 4/15 confirmed the devices existence, plus a security briefing Keating supposedly attended. Who knows??

        • olball coach

          Ive confirmed:

          Mandarin Hotel – Evac – Sr Intel source
          Twitter

          Lennox Htl – Evac – Sr Intel source
          Twitter

          JFK Library – Bomb/Fire – Boston PD source – First Press Conference – WAPO

          Same Pressor as above- it is reported video surveillance picked up individual carry multiple backpacks “TO” blast site.
          – source WAPO

          ? Near Copley Bridge? Notes: I have no source listed – maybe someone knows

          Fairmont Lobby – bomb blast #1, “official source – Twitter

          According to CBS News correspondent Bob Orr, two bombs were inside trash cans near the viewing area close to the finish line. Two unexploded devices have been recovered intact, according to CBS News. – source Federal Authorities
          I also recall an interview of a runner who said he “saw” the 2nd bomb go off in trash can – I am thinking he confused the mail box with trash can.

          In an interview with WBZ-TV, Rep. Bill Keating said he had been told two more devices were found, but not detonated. One was said to be at a hotel near Copley Square, the other was at an undisclosed location.

          authorities also found a device at St. James and Trinity Streets that did not explode, the person said, and two other devices were found, including one in Newton, outside of Boston. source the NY Times.

          elsewhere: One law enforcement official said there had been four: the two that exploded at the marathon and two others that were disabled by the police. source NY Times

          From the Wall Street Journal: Counterterrorism officials found five additional suspect devices around the Boston area on Monday, but a law-enforcement official later said closer examinations led them to doubt that they were bombs. An earlier version of this article cited people briefed on the investigation saying officials believed they were undetonated explosive devices.

          I am sure there is more reports but I dont recall anything differing from the above accounts.
          Now – what if the brothers did drop “fakes” – cans with fireworks powder in them – “so the dogs can find them during the drill” or so they were told. Just tossing salad.
          At any rate thats a lot of different reporters and eye witnesses (Twitter guy) who heard from sources or overheard officers and all hearing the same thing until the next morning when the FBI takes over and dismisses all accounts of undetonated bombs. Hmmm?

        • Missie Baker

          Yes, we are on the same curiously dead-end page on this one…what do you make of it? (BTW, dropping fakes for the dogs? Was that in the Urban Shield drill description someone posted here? I didn’t read very far into that, did I miss it? Or, are you quoting from another source?) I believe we are safe to assume something was happening, if only because three of the locations are famous hotels in the area…is that a coincidence? (since one of the devices, at the Mandarin, was reported to be outside, as well as the Fairmont/ST J. & Trinity street locale, I discount the fact that hotel lobbies are where one is more likely to find untended bags from harried travelers with kids fighting check-in–and well-trained airport travelers are apt to search nervously for those same untended bags.)
          It just seems odd–and our pile of Odd is growing. But I believe we’ve gone as far as we can, unless one of us can turn up photographs of the devices or discovery of them by LE–an impossible task. Maybe Russ & team could look further into this curiosity–the complete wall of silence on it could be significant to the overall shape of this event. But I’m wildly speculating.

        • olball coach

          Actually, I never read it. Did not want to taint my objective look at the events.

          I just put two and two together on what you would tell a drill participant (patsy) to get them to go along. TT bought the necessary supplies, assembled the devices and delivered. How else would you or anyone have responded had the FBI called you afterwards and said – “Hey” we want to talk to you about the BMB’s.” TT responded like anyone who was doing what they were told to do – as related by his mother and father – “that’s your problem.”

          We have shown the official narrative (crim complaint) does not fit the photo together with which they are trying to sell as evidence of DT’s guilt. So, yes something was going on. We can speculate all we want – as we are doing now – since we are pretty certain they have fabricated evidence. If they were directed to be there, it had to be for some reason – and dropping fakes is as good a reason as any, and it makes sense that at least there two fakes would have been found and later dismissed.
          I agree there is not much more in the way of “publicly available” information that we can dissect. At least until the trial comes near, or Russ decides to take the abundance of information left here and distills it down to another piece with his teams own research.
          I am going to keep following this in the Russian papers. In the meantime I going to continue editing the remaining scanner feeds I have, and working on the public information index I mentioned earlier.

        • Missie Baker

          Actually fell asleep last night trying to get a link to this image to work..

          http://www.sydsvenskan.se/ScaledImages/464×261/Images2/2013/4/20/sz2cf130(2).jpg?h=ab6cdf81695baceb3685abc3e518ea75&fill=True&cut=True

          It appears to be taken just before the David Green photo showing DT leaving the scene sans backpack. (BTW, ever notice how the CCTV sidewalk image of DT walking toward the forum after he supposedly left his 2:44 “spot” captured by Daytona Kid doesn’t show his backpack either…just his right thumb hooked into a strap on his shoulder? Someone on this thread mentioned DT also had a black camera bag hooked over his same shoulder as the backpack. Take another look and tell me you see a backpack.)

          It’s a curiosity that LetsRollForum commenters were focusing on–the race camera to the right has the “wrong time” as second explosion was 4:09:57, and you can clearly see the smoke billiowing–and it appears to be a few seconds before David Green’s photo, based on a comparison of billowing. And the street scene is very different from Green’s, so either another disconnect, or this photo is shopped in some way.

        • olball coach

          You’d have to show me the picture from Daytona Kid – the one I am thinking of does not show a back pack but there is something he has his thumb wrapped around – not sure about the camera. I would need something more – the far out conspirators say he is carrying a backpack out but it has been shopped out. I dont know. As far as the data is concerned – I fall back to Ocams razor – if you ask me for theory I have several. I am afraid our analysis of the data shows contradictions and logical problems but I am not sure the can verified in a court, or worse can be brushed aside.

          I am betting that its just the clock running on before it is eventually stopped.

        • olball coach

          Just reread my reply and that seems muddled. Lets answer and post from the start of the thread. To many open threads to keep track of this far down. I will re-answer at the top.

        • olball coach

          I found this today. I just can’t bring myself to cross the divide into a massive play-act fantasy. Nope. Won’t do it. But, here it is in writing, planned and ready to go.

          https://hseep.dhs.gov/hseep_Vols/default1.aspx?url=rightTreeDisplay.aspx

          and then there is the piece you referred to earlier – guess I’ll read it. Did you know the guy who wrote this Richard Serino – he was at the BM directing first responders. He is on the sidewalk – to the left in blue jacket, ball cap and white event badge.

          http://www.integratedtrainingsummit.org/presentations/2008/main_training_summit/course_18_-_tale_of_two_cities_and_the_running_of_a_planned_mass_casualty_event_-_serino_richard.pdf

        • Missie Baker

          Think you misunderstood my earlier post–not interested in investigating any further? Not hardly. Been over on letsrollforum.com Hoaxes, Boston Marathon, My Boston Bombing Research. They are little too skeptical bordering on nutty, but here’s a link we might use for Blue Runner if we could find his Bib # “You type in the surname and select “Boston Marathon 2013″ to bring up results. If you only have a bib/race number, you will need to find out the surname, which you can by entering it on this page first. http://boston-iframe.r.mikatiming.de…88D4&pid=start
          Then, enter name to pull up photos during the race, and presumably his time…. exciting. http://marathonfoto.com/site/home

          But I haven’t had much luck finding his bibb no. I noticed before this it seemed to be concealed.

        • olball coach

          crud I threw my notes away – I saw it and wrote it down. No worry – I will find it again – my file is large and getting hard to handle – but I will find it.

        • Missie Baker

          I am beginning to suspect your file is becoming invaluable. There is a trove of images site I mentioned many I haven’t seen.

        • olball coach

          25379 – ya gotta blow it up – I have another angle if this doesnt work.

        • Missie Baker

          Did you check–he’s there alright, appears to have run the entire race: 04:09:12

          You were right, yes?

        • Missie Baker

          Partial bibb # 253 (21?) (7?)–can’t see any more than this….

        • olball coach

          Dont understand your above post?

        • olball coach

          not sure what this means – I have confirmed Serino is the guy I described. He is on the sidewalk – to the left in blue jacket, ball cap and white event badge.

        • Missie Baker

          Don’t drink the ‘fantasy’ koolaid, I’ll have some time to delve into these documents later tomorrow, and determine why wouldn’t open for me,

        • Missie Baker

          Paula Ebben ‏@PaulaEbben #CBS: Feds say 2 more devices found along route , one underneath Grandstand #wbz #bostonmarathon
          1:31 PM – 15 Apr 13

          Lisa Hughes ‏@LisaWBZ 15 Apr Police reportedly find three more devices. Boston explosion–at least 2 dead. 23 injured.
          Retweeted by WBZ Boston Marathon
          1:35 PM – 15 Apr 13 · Details

          AndreaWBZ ‏@AndreaWBZ . @PaulaEbbenWBZ: FBI says 2 exploded devices were in trash cans. Stay away from trash cans. One unexploded device recovered. #wbz

          1:40 PM – 15 Apr 13
          There is a lot of detailed information on bombs that never existed. (captured on LRF site) Can it truly be discounted as insignificant..

        • olball coach

          No – it isn’t until the FBI takes over at roughly 8:40 pm that night (4/15) that everything reported up to that point gets walked back – from one guy with two backpacks, to at least 3 unexploded bombs, to the JKF library bomb and more – all gets reconfigured into their narrative – and not what was earnestly reported by officers and eye witnesses on scene.
          The FBI swoops in and changes the narrative, and then new information contradicts them and they change it again – MSM is willing and compliant. And it happens over and over again. “They” want us to accept it was “fog of war” or over zealous reporting – and to some extent I can accept that – but like you I am not naive or stupid. I began this as a simple curiousity – and its turning into a cause.

        • Missie Baker

          And you are right about there being lots more video and photo imagery we are not privy to, for example here’s something I’ve just noticed:

          From the Rolling Stone article:

          Someone mentions one of the surveillance videos
          of Jahar, which shows him impassively watching as people begin to run in
          response to the blast. “I mean, that’s just the face I’d always see chilling, talking, smoking,” says Jackson. (my edit: as if he’d seen the video?)

          Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/jahars-world-20130717#ixzz2ZpvjpQKS
          Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

          (and From CNN: 4/19/13 4:44 PM)

          Other footage, still
          unreleased, shows that the two suspects stayed at the scene to watch the
          carnage unfold, a federal law enforcement official with knowledge of the
          investigation told CNN’s Susan Candiotti.

          These two reports, curious in a way. We know 12 seconds between the two explosions. Per crim complaint, DT looked around after first one, and then walked calmly West. No fleeing or serious crowd action began until after second explosion, and we see the terror captured crowd faces at corner Fairfield/Boylston in David Green’s photo catching DT just coming up to former Athropologie retail outlet. Google clocks the walk from 755 to 774 at 9 seconds, it’s 43 feet. (I assume Google means moving at a calm pace, not a fast clip.) Was there a time stamp on David Green’s photo? (wouldn’t that be amazing? There was per AP, but we don’t see it) Green states his photo was shot a few seconds after the explosion. Anyway, the “carnage” (per the CNN language-quite insensitive) is up by Forum, the only aftermath from DT’s calm pace Westward is watching people flee around him. This photo would appear to match exactly him leaving the Forum site, and moving through the crowd to arrive at the corner within the time frame from the Crim complaint.

          So, again, where’s this surveillance tape, or these accounts sounds like embroidery. And if there is surveillance tape of DT “watching the aftermath”, then he couldn’t have been in Forum location….timing doesn’t work.
          *there may be other possibilities, but it appears DT is leaving the scene…could he have stayed around to watch the ambulances line up–he wouldn’t have been able to get close–it was a crime scene, so more likely he continued on down Boylston and left.

        • olball coach

          on another note – anything that comes from a “federal official with knowedge of the investigation” – should be discounted immediately. I have sourced 12 “quotes” or reports as stated above and they are 12 for 12 on the bs quotient – and I am not even into the shoot out yet. Davis and his PR flack seem to be pretty good so far at relating information – that I can verify as truth – but the feds live in their own world. Not only can you not verify the veracity of what they say – you cannot confirm who said what. On three seperate occassions – local news, reports “fed investigators” say such and such – only later to be denied by other “fed” investigators. Keep mind the head of the Boston FBI office, DeLauniers (sp?) was “resigned” a couple of weeks ago without any fanfare.

        • Missie Baker

          Ha, actually had to work all day today! Understood re: the Fed officialdom–anonymous as a source to the public, of course. Yes, what did you make of the DesLauriers “resignation”–I didn’t read the news until literally a day or so before his final day. Shuffled off to the private sector, in the middle of the biggest terrorist case in 11 years? Does this have anything to do with the DT black backpack snafu? I can envision agents sitting in a huddle…”boss said black bag, but we got white, grey if you squint. What to do, make boss look like an idiot and lose our jobs, or fudge it and hope the 100 or so people who notice will be dismissed as conspiracy nuts?” Guess I know what they chose

        • olball coach

          Commenters noticed DeLauriers didnt look as confident and organized as he had in his previous pressors. He was rather down and was reading from script.

          I am thinking the problem for Boston FBI is higher up – zero communication with all the state and local agencies working on the regional task force – regarding information on TT. Zero coordination with the CIA, those initial releases following Momma T’s stunning revelations were CYA for both and felt awkward and strained?

          I still havent squared Momma T’s out of the box – what I think are off script confessions – which is why we are even speculating here – if you really get down to it. She could never (or the media never reported correctly) quite articulate the relationship TT and the family had with the FBI. However, Uncle Ruslan’s pressor sure took on a curious air with his outright condemnation of the brothers. Was that CIA CYA or regret at how things turned out? Regardless, just try to imagine how this would have gone if Momma T had remained silent?

          I think the higher ups could not have been happy with the way the shoot outs went down in Watertown. If this was a simple effort to bring the brothers in – as I contend, either the CIA and FBI were not on the same page or someone was deliberately sabotaging the other. The unbelievable avalanche of events from the Colliers shooting, the silly carjacking narrative, the weird BOLO’s and the multiple shoot outs and this adds up to a seat of your pants – op gone wrong.

          If as I contend the CIA was bringing there boys in – the FBI should have been responsible for clearing the way. This did not happen – and it probably resulted in handlers having to shoot their way out – against cops who thought they going after cop killers.
          Now the Boston FBI office is not cooperating with local PD on the investigation, nor are they talking to the various Senate and Congressional sub committees set up to look into what happened. Hmm ya think?

        • Missie Baker

          Ha! Your final comment: “Last thing – I have never been comfortable with the what appears to be a black rectangular box standing vertical (could be a shadow or deliberately shadowed) behind Mrs. Martin and the two girls, it almost looks like Mrs. Martins bended foot is leaning against it.”
          Could it be a shadow created because this photo of DT at the second explosion is a still of a moving video/surveillance camera? (we have no idea of photo’s true origins), Lines seem too sharp for black rectangular shape to be accidental–it most definitely looks “suspicious!” I always thought Ms. R’s foot, and the two girls’ legs/stances were too flat…now I know why, Good one!!!

        • Missie Baker

          Is tall, bearded man by Norden group Darrel Folkert, shielded by mailbox? Aren’t we examining the individuals in the DT sidewalk image to look for time and location inconsistencies? For example, first responder photos indicate an older child’s stroller underfoot, but not visible in DT image.

        • olball coach

          You mean stubble with Red Hat? That guy (I think is Darrel) is one of the Nordin brothers friends. There was a group of 5-6 guys and a couple of girl friends who came down from some small town a few miles up the highway – all childhood or high school friends.
          Interesting thing about the stroller, it is clearly pictured front and left of center in the famous channel 7 picture that shows the brown and plastic bags in front of the barrier. That picture was taken an hour before the explosion. But it does not show in the DT sidewalk picture, and neither in the panaramic shot of the blast site just seconds after the bomb went off. It suddenly appears in the middle of the mess in one of the graphic pictures and later in the panaramic wide angle shots. In the earlier picture it looked like an older women -“grandma” controlling the stroller.

        • Missie Baker

          Two different darrels? I am referring to redondo beach individual injured waiting for wife half mile away or perhaps quarter mile as tall man once possibly thought to be mr hern.

        • olball coach

          Here’s Darrel limping across the street as he described – He was the guy (Blue sweats) chatting with Ms. Sodia just before the blast.

        • Missie Baker

          Agreed, I do recall this image but hadn’t connected the dots. So he is the man in the bright royal blue nylon shirt and sunvisor chatting away, and suffering minor injuries, at least compared to Ms. Sdoia. He said the mailbox protected him, so he must have moved from his position next to Ms. Sdoia to around the mailbox after the first explosion…because the Fed’s photo of DT shows the knapsack leaning against the tree trunk. http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/23/us/boston-marathon-mailbox

          Have you collected the stories of the survivors around this site in any sort of order? We know there were changes in the ninety seconds m/l between Fed’s image and first explosion. The Norden group make reference to the crowd surging toward the barricades to get onto the street.

        • olball coach

          Long story, but no – I didnt get every victim story saved away – I managed to save a few before the Globes subscription fee was reinstated – Anyway – The Nordin brothers story was an expecially interesting one. Once the first bomb went off – one of the friends yelled “over the barricades” and jumped over, several started jumping over, and help others over, as the crowd surged, J.P. inside the barrier lifted his girlfriend (Jackie) over and that is when the 2nd bomb went off, cutting him down. I think Sdoia was pushed into corner of the barricade and mail box and blocked from excaping and it seems like Darrell was behind her and just right of the mail box just missing most of the spray of the shrapnel. She took a direct hit of the explosion and shrapnel.
          From the stories related it seemed like the explosion originated to one side of the tree and sprayed shrapnel in a half to three quarter circle – beginning with Sdoia (at the 5:00 clock hour position) and ending just after the 12:00 am hour directly in front of the Forums windows.
          Steve Byrn, bald, oversized white shirt and sweats – said he jumped the barricade from the other side of the mail box. You can see from a couple of pictures those three girls trying to get over the barricades a few feet down.
          I don’t recall any of the victims detailing much before the 1st blast. Most where just watching the race enjoying the moment. The story begins with the 1st blast shaking everyone up and ends in a daze of pain – several seconds after the 2nd blast.

        • Missie Baker

          Do you recall reading much of the history of Ms. Sdoia? Regular event for her to attend with friends. I believe she spoke about how she was the only one of her friends who was injured and that was just the way it happened she wasn’t going to dwell on why she was hurt and they weren’t. Anyway my point is from the photo if Darrel is standing beside her and she doesn’t move based on the injuries we know she sustained where are her friends? She is talking to Darrell. Possible they moved away or are they missing? (Remember I’m looking for oddities based on narrative because I find the photo of DT to be suggestive of a compilation because of several factors. Need to organize my thoughts before I post.

        • olball coach

          I know what a “compilation” is, but I don’t know what you mean by compilation in this context. What do you mean?
          Her friends? I remember seeing her talking to some others in the that video that aired of that section that the station made a big deal about. It was an hour or so before the blast. I dont recall any other mention of her friends, in the restaurant – on the patio, maybe they cleared out to let her chat up Darrel – I dont know.

        • olball coach

          I know I have seen the stroller grandma prior to the blast – just cant locate her now.
          I am thinking I saw her in one of the race videos that was shot at this location an hour before the blast. Think it was the one Fox News made a big fuss about. Also, she may be out of camera shot or behind everyone. In the first picture below you can see the stroller to the left and to the back of that group of people attending to the injured.
          I think your right about the young child that was carried out. There was 5 year old boy who was not named in the WAPO list injured at blast site 2.

        • olball coach

          oops wrong grandma – wrong stroller.

        • Missie Baker

          Glad you got that one put to bed. (700 photos later) But it is a curious thing yet again–where were the parents of such a small child that a stranger could extract him from the tumble without a clutching mother’s hand? They were ground zero for the explosion–did you read/collect an account of the parents at this site being severely injured? Perhaps little boy was cut by flying glass inside the Forum…

        • olball coach

          Found this –

          Dr. Peter Burke, chief of trauma surgery at Boston Medical Center, said Thursday the 5-year-old boy is getting better and “is going to be OK.”

          Burke says the boy, whose name has not been released, had significant soft tissue injuries and pulmonary injuries. He says a blast can often compress a child’s chest, bruising the lungs and heart. Burke says he’s pleased with the boy’s progress.

          Lisa Allee, head of the hospital’s Community Violence Response Team, says the boy has family around him. But she says the child’s mother also was injured and is at another hospital.

        • olball coach

          Another interesting story, the mother was injured very badly, and seperated from her son. For some reason she did not want her name or son’s name released even though she had family in Louisiana. Finally, a Houston paper got an interview and mom and sons story was told. Anyway not, the same little one lifted out of the crowd at blast site 2. However, did find something on the unknown at site 2. He is 2 years old, suffered minor injury to head and was released two family a day later. Nothing else I can find.

        • Missie Baker

          “Two other explosive devices reportedly were found nearby and dismantled.”
          This non-event, reported in many places, was later discredited in the media. Have you read anything on the location–I’d like to track it down–all I recall reading is that these were at the end of a street. But with all the bags dropped by people fleeing, why were these two bags suspicious? Bomb-sniffing canines, maybe? Does your mind wander down the same path as mine? I’d really like to see some images of these non-devices and what they were housed in.

        • olball coach

          No I dont have an answer and since I was tracking so many other threads – it never occurred to me. Like I said earlier – I am just starting to organize MSM information to see where the legit info was coming from and where the bs was sourcing/originating from – I can shortcut this a little if you can give me some links regarding additional bombs – or – regarding the JFK library – several stories popped up earlier about documents that might have been lost due to the bombs/fire that occurred at the same time as the BMBing.
          Ya know – I sure hope Russ is tracking all the work his contributors are doing – I have attempted for you, DM and Hoegartin to summarize large chunks of scanner data compared against video, photo, and witness accounts. Russ would be much better at distilling it down to a point by point narrative – ?

        • Missie Baker

          Doubtful he would have the patience to listen to the police scanners…I’ve spent two hours transcribing just the first ten minutes of the MIT 30min segment and still have blanks.
          There may have been two additional unexploded devices (on Monday, Mass Rep Bill Keating*** stated two, Ed Davis said one.) Found a sidebar story in a report of two friends at the finish who were separated, only to hear after more than hour a third “huge” explosion nearby to Boylston. On Tuesday, Deval denied these other two devices were explosives. Original reports from finish line witness state IED were dropped in garbage cans (the BBC lady must have heard the same story, because she commented they were staying away from garbage cans, wanted to get to the street then the second explosion detonated, if I recall correctly) HWL said the two add’l devices were found in the Mandarin and Lennox Hotels, (I’m guessing lobby–public access) which might be substantiated by a different report one of these hotels was evacuated, just for safety’s sake. CNN also reported one of the unexploded devices was found at a Hotel on Boylston Street, and the second location wasn’t disclosed. I’m still searching….
          **member of House Homeland Security Committee
          Original source for two additional devices on Monday” Senior Intelligence Official” on condition of remaining anonymous.
          Keating was quoted as saying “sophisticated, coordinated, planned attack.” Reminded me of CIA Baer’s assessment on MSNBC.

          IMO You are performing 2nd & 3rd year law clerk work on this case…did the Fed judge–Bowler? grant Miriam’s second request for the third attorney to assist on the fed death penalty–I’m thinkingg he will sweep up all his free law students and get them to work on fact-finding. (I thought I recalled reading Case Western, but I need to reread to confirm) because he is experienced and knows what sort of evidence is valuable.

        • Missie Baker

          Are we in agreement, blue runner was likely at the mailbox roughly 1 min 30 sec before first explosion? (looking at average mile times divided by tenth of a mile, and race clock finish time, plus video tracking you did and one I found as well.) But doesn’t confirm DT present or why he walked away from knapsack (!) to go stand behind Ms. Sdoia to make his 18 seconds of phone call right before first explosion. Photo still seems like a compilation …..

        • olball coach

          Yes, 1:30 or less seems a good bet – and yes the photo contradicts the complaint because of blue runner. Compilation of what?

      • DM

        So how did the good old mainstream media overlook this key fact?

        • olball coach

          they are lazy and transcribe what they are told to say.

    • Mervi Ketola

      I’ve also now been listening to those scan feeds but couldn’t place the time when they found/recovered the gun. Could you give me hint/or the exact time where from to listen? Thank you for in advance.

      • olball coach

        the officer reported having found the gun after several groups of officers where reported leaving the staging area wtih their dogs to begin searches he was searching the Vasser Street and reported fairly early after they were dispatched. He also reported having an eye witness. All I can remember right now.

      • medianotes6

        Which feeds are you listening to? It seemed it was within 45 minutes of when it was called in on the Cambridge feeds – I’ll go over it again; Boston isn’t made aware of the Collier situation until 10:48 so the Cambridge is the best to start out with. I am transcribing and needed to get to this section – so I’ll post again in a day or two.

        • olball coach

          It was the MIT feed – MIT handled the Collier calls for about the first hour – (this is from memory so I may be off a bit) – at 10:26 pm a resident calls in and asks why there is a campus police officer parked on the side walk in front of Strata 32 – dispatch calls Collier – a few minutes later – at 10:28 or so -it was Collier who called in the original “officer down” and then at 10:34-35 it was MIT guys who made the emotional calls to dispatch “officer down” and requested EMTS immediately. It is in this time frame that Colliers gun is reported missing – By 10:50 or so – officers were arriving on scene and being dispatched (some with dogs) to the train station (blue line) and down streets in all directions – and it is about 10 minutes later from those dispatches that the gun was reported found. Around this time – two officers report that Strata has two good cameras overhead and they are running upstairs to get them.

        • olball coach

          Sorry – sent before I was finished. It was at that time I think the feeds were enlarged because then we start hearing about a fire, a couple of disturbances as well as updates at the scene of the Collier death.
          I went into some detail about (again from memory) to show that MIT was the original scan on the one I posted above. I dont know if Boston or Cambridge picked this up or not.

        • medianotes6

          Thanks Olball, I thought it was soon after.
          Its interesting, I tried to find the MIT on Broadcastify a few weeks ago, and it had a listing but with the decription ‘no file’ or something like that. I just looked again and even that dead link is missing. I’m still going back over the Cambridge/Boston PD because I think thats where I got it. Just a few short statements, although I don’t think those feeds (Cambridge/Boston) included where it was found. Do you know where there is a MIT archive of that feed?

        • olball coach

          Just this one –

          It picks up MIT for about the first hour and then blends in with Boston/Cambridge/Middlesex (?) as action picks up following the carjacking – best one I have found though – and others listening now are reporting hearing the same things I did just days later – So – it appears they are not getting “doctored.”

        • Hoegarten

          Can you describe the multiple shootouts you heard? Do you still have doubts about the real DT being in court that day? You connected the multiple shootouts and capture to that, but I’m not sure why that would mean the real DT is not there

        • olball coach

          1.
          Dispatch alerts the field that a lo-jack ping for the Black Mercedez has come
          back from 81 Dexter. An officer on scan responds that he knows the area and
          requests permission to check it out.

          2. The
          BOLO issued following the carjacking gives a description of 2 middle eastern
          men 5’7″ slender, one dark, dark clothes, the other clean shaven with a
          goatee.

          3. 1-2 minutes later at 12:46
          – officers on the scene at Dexter and Laurel are heard shots fired –
          shots fired, detonating bombs, “they are running through the
          backyards”, “one is getting in his car and trying to
          leave”. Later we find out this is
          supposedly where TT was run over and officer Donohue went down on Hazel at
          Dexter. DT barreled out of there heading
          west on Laurel, which becomes Spruce.

          In addition,
          we have the Ketzenberg photos to draw from – showing both brothers standing in
          the headlights of the Mercedez in front of the Honda Sedan with its trunk
          open.

          4. 12:48 – officer on scan yell “Adams
          Street, Adams Street” – “shots fired shots fired, officer down,
          explosives being detonated”.
          Dispatch asks if they need an ambulance?
          Several seconds later officer reports stolen black police SUV (I looked
          up what the State guys drive and it is the same Make Model and Year of the
          “hi-jacked” ) came down Adams from Mt Auburn shooting. Later confirmed 2 more times by other
          officers.

          5. 12:55 – officers yell “be advised
          officers pinned down at Spruce and Lincoln – shots fired – shots fired – be
          advised there are sticks of dynamite”.
          Seconds later – officer reports – floored the car into backyard,
          officers were pinned down and floored car into back yard.”

          Why
          where they repeatedly cruising this neighborhood that evening – and then found
          at 81 Dexter Ave. It’s never been clear
          whether that was a parked location or if the car was tracked going by that
          house at that moment. Seems to me, if
          it was moving, dispatch would have indicated “heading north on
          Dexter” etc.,

          They
          are driving two cars – not two guys in one car as the official narrative would
          have us believe. But there is the BOLO
          issued following the car-jacking describing 2 middle eastern men 5’7″,
          slender etc., – How did the Shell Clerk and Danny get the sizes of brothers so
          seriously off target. NO WHITE HAT? And yet LE provides surveillance photos from
          the ATM and the Shell Station showing them both (or a look alike) wearing the
          white hat driving hat. The investigator
          certainly knew who Danny described. Danny must have told him they were BMBr’s –
          and they killed the cop. But all that
          came out in the BOLO’s that night were 7-11 robbery, Cop Killer, car-jacking –
          heading to Manhatten.

          But
          where did the 5’7″ middle eastern guy come from/or go? I think they or he was a handler bringing
          them in.

          There
          are three seperate shootouts reported on the scanner that night: Dexter & Laurel, Adams & Mt. Auburn,
          and Spruce and Lincoln.

          At
          Dexter & Laurel we are told TT was run over and DT got away heading west on
          Spruce. 2 confirmed suspects are id’d
          but the scanner chatter continually refers to the suspects in the plural, such
          as “they are running through the backyards, they are in their car, they
          are shooting.” It is not a leap
          into conspiracy to think maybe there was another or two.

          This is
          also the location where several home videos were taken of the shoot out and it
          is heard on the tape the brothers are yelling what sounds like
          “Chill” – “we didnt do it” and more. Whats interesting is the reaction of the
          members in the house of whoever is filming – they hear the brothers too and are
          shocked the police continue firing.

          At
          Adams and Mt. Auburn we only know from scan and that there was a shoot out
          described by officers – but from video we that there was an arrest of two
          suspects driving a stolen state police Black Mercedez SUV. It is not 100% certain whether an officer was
          injured at this location. Dispatch
          asked, the message was garbled – but seconds later unit 54 (medical) reported
          it was in route.

          The
          video down thread shows the arrest at 526 Mt Auburn which is reported on the
          scan (only one time that night). The
          video shows yelling between suspects and police and some contributors here
          thought they heard one yelling for Johar.
          As the video is winding down one suspect is walked up Mt Auburn towards
          Dexter and you can clearly see he is wearing a white driving hat. The second suspect you only see his arrest on
          the ground in front of the camera and then the film is stopped and the next
          thing you see – he appears to be in a police vehicle fully clothed.

          Interestingly
          – the video down thread also shows during this arrest – three ambulances making
          their way through the scene – alarms blaring heading presumably to the
          hospital.

          At
          Spruce & Lincoln officers report being shot at and seeing, or hearing

          dynamite. To protect themselves they drove
          off the road and into a back yard. By
          the time backup arrived the suspect(s) had fled. The location where the car-jacked Mercedez is
          found and where DT was eventually found was on block and 1/2 away – maybe
          several hundred feet. Hmmm?

          So, the
          shootouts indicate clearly more than two individuals involved in the
          shootout – if that is the case and I believe it is – these are valuable, important guys that “someone” is trying to save and help escape. Otherwise, they would have been disappeared outright. I think they are either dead or gone. There might be value keeping up the pretense that Johar is still alive and standing trial. Maybe “they” want to know who screwed up their “drill” at the Boston Marathon so bad? I don’t know. The evidence can only explain so much – after that we are Tom Clancey territory.

        • Hoegarten

          Thank you. You did an awesome job transcribing!

        • Hoegarten

          “Several seconds later officer reports stolen black police SUV (I looked up what the State guys drive and it is the same Make Model and Year of the “hi-jacked” ) came down Adams from Mt Auburn shooting. ”

          Where’d you find this info? I’ve been looking for it?

        • olball coach

          Well the Scanner reports I have noted above.
          I googled around the MASS State Police web site – and they actually picture the Mercedez – an all black model is used by undercover, investigator types, and a Blue and White Model is used by patrol. There are plenty of patrol Mercedez seen in all the video shot and shown on UTube.

        • medianotes6

          Thanks so very much! I really want to hear that MIT feed especially about the missing gun/finding the gun. I hope the kid’s lawyers do too.

      • medianotes6

        On the Boston 1021 to 1051 feed, at about the 28:59/29:00 point (so @ 10:49:59pm) Cambridge’s car 4 calls in that they’ve found the officer’s weapon.

        Later on the Boston 11:21-11:51 feed at the 01:54 point a woman announces a general advisory about the the shooting, how it was called in, who responded, that the officer’s gun is missing and that it was recovered by Cambridge PD, no suspect description or direction of flight.

        The announcements above are not cryptic, they are pretty straight forward, but if listened to passively without noting the time, or with distractions, they are hard to find without listening to the whole series again.

        • Mervi K.

          Thank you so much for all the help! Appreciated!

        • medianotes6

          No problem, its a good question.

        • Mervi K.

          Yes, I heard that now. I think the problem is that we don’t know where from the officer located the gun.. was it found from Colliers car, holster or from ground or maybe from some somewhere else..?

        • olball coach

          I recall from scan that the gun was found around the corner at or near 15 Vasser up against a barrier, a fence or something -(I think it was sniffed out by a dog.?) This same officer also called in the first report of a witness having seen the 7-11 robbery suspect – and id’d him correctly. That was followed up minutes later by another eye witness id’ing same (employee/valet) down Main Street in front of the Marriott. Officers were immediately dispatched to the red line station.

        • medianotes6

          Either way, it would conflict with DiFava’s statement: If it was in the car and it
          took them 20 minutes to find it then it had to be in an obscure location within the car. This contradicts DiFava’s assertion that Tsarnaev reached in, yanked it, couldn’t get it and left.

          However, since the weapon was found by the Cambridge PD, then it was not within the crime scene; their role as a group was not working the crime scene.

        • olball coach

          Exactly. MIT PD regained their composure and established a command center on site. Surrounding PD’s came in and provided the investigative work sending out units of one and two man teams some with dogs to gather intell. And it paid off.

  • olball coach

    Great article connecting a lot of dots – and in the meantime calls out the Boston FBI office for knowing TT well in advance of the Boston Marathon. http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/07/12/tsar-j12.html

  • DM

    I watched all the videos of “eyewitnesses” of the Watertown “shootout”, and not one of them clearly said they saw the brothers shooting back at police, or throwing bombs. They say they heard booms, but these could have been the “flashbangs” the police used. I do not rule out that the brothers might have tried to arm themselves but they could have done this out of sheer desparation. If, as I tend to believe, they were not responsible for the bombing, the manhunt did a great job of making it impossible for them to approach anybody for help, let alone come forward without fear of being shot. People forget the family’s experience of being driven out of Chechnya and having to move several times in Dagastan, etc., and fail to consider the effects this would have had on the boys, especially Tamerlan – not in terms of causing them to want to bomb Boston, but in terms of reducing their willingness to trust the police or the FBI in the US. We cannot expect people who go through experiences we know nothing about to behave as we think they should.

    • Mervi Ketola

      ..I’m only speculating.. but what if the borthers had only some fireworks with them? No pipebombs.. no cookerbombs.. just plain fireworks.. or firecrakers.. we have never been told what they found from their bags.. and the cookerbomb what the police and people living on that street told the brothers were throwing didn’t do any harm.. only damages on that street came from firefight.. and when we know the brothers had only one handgun with them the most damage was done by the police.

      • DM

        You make a good point. The videos with interviews of residents done afterwards show damage to homes and cars that was done by the police but none by the brothers.

    • Mervi Ketola

      I have this one news article saved.. (tho I don’t know how valid it is, because like I wrote before, we knew that the brother had only one handgun and the one keeping it was the elder brother..):

      “That included the moment, Doucette said, when Dzhokhar threw a pressure-cooker bomb — like the ones that killed three at the marathon.

      “He ran out of bullets, and then he pulled a bomb out and threw it at the cop. And it exploded in the air, and then that’s how he got over the back fence and made it back to the SUV,” Doucette said. “And it really looked like the brother sacrificed himself so the other one, the
      younger one, could get away. ‘Cause he [the older brother] was walking right towards the cops shooting and throwing grenades or pipe bombs and then he ended up making it past them all up the street.””

      http://www.wbur.org/2013/04/21/watertown-residents-reemerge

  • Hoegarten

    So, here’s a new story related to the Boston bombing in the Chicago tribune. Apparently some schizophrenic guy in Topsfield, MA was stockpiling guns, ammo, and gunpowder (and a pressure cooker!) that he had since before the bombings, and his mom was a-ok with it until he
    assualted her and her b/f. They also found a burned green teddy bear that was repeatedly stabbed?

    A Waltham cop was found with bomb making materials

    And apparently nationwide cops have been found with bomb making materials. (Do a google search)

    It sounds like they are setting up more patsys in case Dzhokhar blows this thing wide open in court.

    Also, what about that Saudi kid who was initially the prime suspect? Alharbi was at the whitehouse 7 times before the bombing, and recently there on the 4th of July.Alharbi is designated a 212-3B. This classification translates to: “terrorist connections.” at the least 10 members of that boys extended family is on the Saudi terror list.

  • Hoegarten

    Also, I mentioned this downthread, but no one seemed to pick up on it. On his twitter, he retweets something from Kavkazcenter back in 2012.

    About Kavkazcenter on wikipedia:

    The Kavkaz Center (KC, literally Caucasus center) is a privately run website which aims to be “a Chechen internet agency which is independent, international and Islamic”.[1]
    The stated mission of the site is to report events related to Chechnya and also to “provide international news agencies with news-letters, background information and assistance in making independent journalistic work in Caucasus”.[2]

    Kavkaz Center is the news portal of the Caucasian Emirate, a militant network aiming to establish an Islamic state in the Caucasus.[4] The organisation is banned in Russia, and it is on the United States’ List of Most Wanted Terrorist organizations.[5] Kavkaz Center is controlled by Movladi Udugov,[4] a skilled propagandist who follows a fundamentalist strain of Islam.[6]

    According to Dr Greg Simons from Swedish National Defence College, “not all of the content on Kavkazcenter can be classified as being extremist and dangerous.
    However, some material that appears on the website clearly is falling into the realm of extremist and terrorist material.”[7] Some of the material on the site calls “for the violent overthrow of the current regime that was created by a invasion and for acts of aggression against the civilian population. As such, according to both Russian and international standards this is extremist and terrorist material.”[7]

    His tweet has nothing to do with terrorism, but why would he even follow those fools? They describe terrorist attacks as “martyrdom operations” Terrorists are called “brave mujadeen soldiers”. They cry and moan about “Russian puppet police” ” cruelly retaliating for the brave mujadeen soldiers killing a bunch of Russian soldiers at a wake for another Russian soldier. They have headlines that read “200 Muslims in Syria became martyrs today”. I guess every Muslim who dies, even if it has nothing to do with Jihad, is a martyr, especially when fighting against the Hexbolloh infidels?

    I also remember an interview with one of his friends saying that at one time, they were talking about terrorism, and he said “sometimes terrorism is necessary”, but of course
    his friend thought that he wouldn’t turn around and become a terrorist.

    Dzhokhar was a terrorist sympathizer no doubt about it. That alone of course does not make him guilty. One also has to wonder about the “influence” of the professor at UMASS Dartmouth who was his mentor for a high school project in Chechnya. He writes his books and papers in epic sweeping prose (it reminds me of the Qur’an),
    and he seems to minimize the Al Queda link to the Caucasian Emirates.
    Here’s an article about that:http://www.opednews.com/articles/Is-This-the-Man-Who-Radic-by-Joe-Giambrone-130606-764.html

    He also writes for the Huffington Post at times, and links to the KavkazCenter in his articles.

    • DM

      A terrorist sympathizer??! Only from a Russian perspective. Just as from the point of view of the South African government, Nelson Mandela was once an extremist terrorist leader .

      I am not Chechnyan. I have no Chechnyan friends. But I am also not a fan of the Russian government’s treatment of Chechnyans. It has been brutal and bloody. They engaged in renewed violence following the marathon bombing, burning and slaughtering so-called militants on their own territory. So if you wish to position yourself as approving of the Russian invasion of Chechnya then do not be surprised if others question your stance on democracy and freedom.

      In case you’ve forgotten, the US government has been on the side of the Chechnyans. That is why it is so unlikely that any Chechnyan would wish to target a city in the US. Also, the Tsarnaev family was directly affected by the violence. It’s shamefully easy for Americans like you to be glib about other people’s pain. One day it might be a shock to learn that the world has little sympathy for yours.

      • Hoegarten

        Kavkaz center is a terrorist website point blank, by international standards, Russian standards, American standards, and Chechan standards. It is most certainly not a mouthpiece for the average Chechan! It is a mouthpiece for the Caucasian Emirates.The Chechans do get treated badly by the Russian government, but these disgusting terrorist acts (Beslan Massacre, kidknaping, extortion, IEDS littering the entire region, the black widow suicide bombers)are not the way to go about it. Go to http://www.kavkazcenter.com/. See how endearing and intelligent they are! “Martyrdom operations?” “Brave mujadheen soldiers” Are you kidding me?! I don’t think the average Chechan is a fan of their violence either.

        Al Queda maybe CIA driven, but so is Caucasian Emirates to antagonize Russia on behalf of American oil and mineral interests. Al Queda leaders came into Chechnya from Iraq and Afghanistan and focused the movement from Separatism to Jihad. Chechans have been fighting in Iraq in Afghanistan alongside Arabs i the fight for Jihad. Actually read the opednews article.

        It doesn’t necessarily imply Dzhokhar’s guilt, and I think him taking those knuckle draggers seriously at all is mainly a result of his ex-CIA agent professor, but no non-terrorist sympathiser could possibly respect that group!
        Actually, when I first went to that website as an unfortunate result of a vintage NYT article, I thought to myself- Dzhokhar would never buy into this bull, he’s far too intelligent. Actually, anyone with more than a 5th grade education is too intelligent. Anzor ran to America away from this bull. He would have disowned Dzhokhar if he knew he was following Kavkaz center on twitter, considering them more than sub-human.

        • DM

          I follow a lot of people and groups on twitter with a variety of positions merely out of interest, not necessarily admiration. Some I like to just keep an eye on. So it’s wrong to assume following on twitter means being a “follower” in the standard sense of the word. Many people post that “retweets are not necessary endorsement”. I’m sure you’ve seen that?
          So your reaction could be valid,Jahar would never buy into the bull.
          He was just coming of age in a Cambridge and Dartmouth environment. He was actively engaged there, worked as a lifeguard (you have to pass some scary tests to do that), was well liked, and did many other things, including volunteering. Religion and politics were part of his life but not pursuits.

        • Hoegarten

          Just curious, have you visited the website?

        • White 40 sonething woman

          Loads of people visit that website as another source of info – just like they visit CNN. Doesn’t mean they agree with it or are a terrorist (unless they are young muslim male when just viewing stuff online can be listed in your indictment)

        • Hoegarten

          As I said in the last reply, there’s a difference between following a group for curiosity, info, and research, and then re-tweeting a quote from them which would lead psychological analysis or be thought provoking, and retweeting some hokey “pearl of wisdom” from them that is in the same vein as the other quotes he tweets from respectable Muslim mouthpieces. It almost implies that he uses these buffoons for spiritual guidance, or that he considers them in the same league as legitimate Muslim thinkers. I wouldn’t urge other readers to go visit the site and see for themselves what raving idiotic lunatics they are, if I believed that simply visiting the site of an extremist group made you an admirer of them. I’m not saying it means anything, teenage boys can easily get wrapped up in the “heroic warrior” side of things, and dabble in different schools of thought, but its definitely something notable. It may have lead to a target on his back to set him up, along with the trying to enlighten his friends on September 11 being an inside job. I can’t imagine CIA and company was thrilled with someone who would actually have insight to these things implying anything other than the CIA as being heroic and always having the upper ground.

        • DM

          Notable, but not indictable. “almost implies that he uses these buffoons for spiritual guidance” is not enough. Even if it proved he took guidance.

        • Hoegarten

          I never said indictable

        • Hoegarten

          Sorry, not to be antagonistic, but this argument would hold water if it was some thought provoking quote that would provide insight to a twisted psychology, but, it was some hokey quote written in Russian about how owning all of the gold and silver, and essentially owning the world, will not bring you happiness, much in the same vein as the more spiritual and philosophical quotes on his twitter. I’m off to the KKK’s twitter account to find some inspirational pearls of wisdom now. Good night!

  • DM

    “We don’t know whether the Tsarnaev brothers did kill Collier, although it would be easy to assume they did. Still, we have trouble coming up with an easy motive or a logical reason for them to have been at that place at that time.”
    YA THINK? That means it is not at all easy but very difficult to assume the brothers killed Collier!

  • alice

    There is some very curious links between Boston Bombing and 9/11 – specifically concerning Raytheon and Saudis. Also of note is the judge that is now appointed to the trial for Tsarnaev’s case George O’Toole Jnr is married to a Raytheon employee and was the judge in the Tarek Mehanna case. Glenn Greenwald wrote about it here – http://www.salon.com/2012/04/13/the_real_criminals_in_the_tarek_mehanna_case/

    • Hoegarten

      The thing is with Raytheon, many people in the Boston area work at Raytheon. It’s one of New England’s biggest employers. Usually multiple generations of a family work there (my family included). It could be coincidental.

  • Peter Hunya

    For me its pretty clear:
    A. The Brothers are not the real bombers
    B. Someone is putting this story together from scratch, why? I dont know, but so much of coincidences and assumptions without any evidence.
    C. You would never tell your crimes to a hostage.
    D. You would never tell if you did the Boston Bombings that I did it unless you have a STATEMENT and claim responsibility for the attack as usually terrorist do… the Brothers have none of these.
    E. Why did they do it then if they did it?
    F. Who wants them to be the terrorist? Why they pushing this without any evidence?
    G. Why they killed the 3rd guy Todashev?
    H. Why the two FBI agents died who arrested the Brothers?
    I. The one and only solid conclusion here is: this story is weird even for a hollywood script it would be ridiculous.

    • DM

      I’ve said the same thing as you did under I. This script would be rejected by everybody who ever thought of making a movie..

      • Peter Hunya

        This is for me shocking to see there are so many ignorant or dumb or I dont even know what kind of people are those who turns blind eye for facts!
        I think is after all these evidences that we seen so far we can come to one single conclusion about Boston and its this:
        Something is very wrong here, we need to investigate the whole thing from A to Z.
        They presented that the Brothers killed Collier and actually we dont know who did kill him. But someone presented an assumption as a fact. Why? And on and on and on…
        Its just so disgusting to see how some can play with facts and fictions.
        We should not let the truth down, and allow some people to get away with this crime!
        Dont listen to me. Look at the facts yourself! Check all videos out and read all articles.

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  • Guest

    New picture of Jahar surrenderinghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/BPfB3IbCMAAShoh.jpg

  • Hoegarten

    New Picture of Jahar’s surrender

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Cassandra-Troy/100001504852984 Cassandra Troy

    It is sad, to say the least, that most of our fellow citizens just buy whatever ‘official story’ fed to us through the lazy, complicit corp. media. I was a kid when JFK was assassinated and actually saw Lee Harvey Oswald killed on TV; I learned early on not to believe the spoon fed narrative; in all these years I have found no reason to change my attitude. We can be grateful for the Internet; where we can seek the truth; this is one of the best places to come in that search.

  • Mervi K.

    Just to inform you all that the Boston police has publised some CCTV material concerning about the person who robbed the 7-Eleven on that night when MIT Officer Collier got killed..
    http://www.massmostwanted.org/index.cfm?ac=casedetails&CaseID=20130225
    ..why there has not been more public announcing about this person even he was the one who was one of the suspects of killing mr. Collier?

    • olball coach

      Do you know when this was posted?
      The 7-11 robbery suspect became Collier’s suspected shooter after two eye-witnesses id’d him first on Vasser around the corner from where Collier was sitting – and then again by an employee of the Marriot (Valet) – down (blocks) from the shooting. That’s why LE was swarming all over the Red Line just down the street from the Marriot (thinking that was his direction).
      After the car-jacking – the BOLO’s issued for Colliers killer(s) are based on the investigator, at the Shell Station, interview of the store clerk and “Danny”, the carjack victim. On air officers were issued BOLO’s for 2 middle eastern men 5’7” slender one dark, the other lighter skin and facial hair.
      Obviously, on air there was no explanation of why the description(s) of the “cop killer(s) changed so drastically. It wasnt until the next morning that the car-jacking narrative was floated.
      Officers that night did not know they were chasing the brothers – they thought they were chasing down Colliers killer(s). But the investigator who took “Dannys” statement must have known…?
      This was the pivot point of the operation to get the brothers. But whose operation?

      • Missie Baker

        Excellent summary post!

      • Mervi K.

        Sorry.. I do not know when this wanted poster was added to the Boston Polices page.. I just found it earlier on this week.. of course there is a phone number to the Officer who is ‘working on’ with this case so maybe someone could make a call to him and ask about it..?

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  • olball coach

    Okay I am starting here from an earlier post. You’d have to show me the picture from Daytona Kid – the one I am thinking of does not show a back pack, but there is something he has his thumb wrapped around, but I am not it is a camera. I would need something more. The far out conspirators say he is carrying a backpack out but it has been shopped out. I dont know about that. As far as the data is concerned digital, photographic, eye witness accounts – I always fall back to Ocams razor. If you ask me for my personal theory I have several. Regardless – I am afraid even though our analysis of the various data shows contradictions and logical problems, I am just not sure any can be verified in a court, or worse can be brushed aside.
    Not sure what the signficance of the picture is – ? I think at the time of the blast people were moving in ways that they were comfortable with – until blast 2 and then a sort of claustrophobia set in and a panic of not knowing which way to run kind of took over. They ran to space. And so if you compare these moments to the next preceeding moments – things could have changed dramatically.

    • Missie Baker

      I don’t believe exoneration is a possibility.

      We’ve agreed the Wesh2TV photo (aka Daytona Kid) as stated by reporter doesn’t show any strap. The CCTV image of DT walking for 15 sec to next location–shows thumb under strap, but it’s so murky–does it show the thick backpack strap, or just the thumb hooked under something? And the photo of DT behind Ms. Sdoia, on a cell–no strap, right?

      • olball coach

        Yes on the Wesh2 photo, Yes on the cell phone photo – but – the CCTV image is a tossup – it can be argued either way – what else would his thumb be hooked under? is he moving his hand to his chin or mouth?

        • olball coach

          Where you able to check at the FEMA document I sent you ?

          https://hseep.dhs.gov/hseep_Vols/default1.aspx?url=rightTreeDisplay.aspx

        • Missie Baker

          Tried to open several documents but no luck finding the marathon plan. Philosophy major?

        • olball coach

          Well, hmmmph? I opened several of those FEMA links and its interesting – you might say dimensional. Whereas the Serino doc is a specific plan relative to the Boston Marathon. The FEMA doc(s) is more or less a “Disaster Event” planning manual. Complete from A-Z with at least two scenarios drawn out to provide examples of how to write a press release, how to control crowds, use of weapons, dealing with the public and most fascinating a section for “Actors.”
          Anyway I am sure you can get to it through the FEMA web site. I describe it as “dimensional” becasue it is certainly fodder for the nutbags to scream “play-act conspiracy”, but it is also clearly a planning tool you would think an agency called Homeland Security would put together with FEMA. So – heck, who knows – I’ve only flipped through a couple of the Power Points and paper reports – if I find anything unusual – I’ll let you know.

        • olball coach

          Philosophy major? Yes always, but a formal education became a necessity too…

      • Missie Baker

        Here’s a good opinion article from a female criminal defense attorney with 30 years experience. Note she states “overwhelming evidence” he killed, maimed and terrorized. Clarke and Conrad with similar experience and background are unlikely to disagree.

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/what-motivates-a-lawyer-to-defend-a-tsarnaev-a-castro-or-a-zimmerman/2013/07/25/e81737e8-f2e5-11e2-ae43-b31dc363c3bf_story.html

        • olball coach

          Assuming that is DT in the court room,
          I think we will know fairly soon whether DT and team are going to mount a legitimate defense. The first key is whether they are going to challenge the official narrative. If they are, then it’s game on, and it could become a game of “chicken.”
          If as I/we suspect there are too many unusual anomalies, coincidences and contradictions that suggest there is more to this; the state may not want to risk disclosure. Certainly not, if information gained from disclosures can can be traced to set -up, CIA/FBI affiliation, Uncle Ruslan, blah, blah, blah….A plea deal means DT is willing to spill and no one wants to hear it.
          A dream trial in my opinion is if the state digs its heels in and there is no plea deal thereby forcing DT and the defense team to go nuclear. That would be unprecedented.
          Regardless, I would expect the defense to go for the throat and demand FBI files, CIA files, depose Uncle Ruslan, Momma T, and more etc., even if not to prove innocense but to force the state to disclose more than they want in order to force a plea as well. The defense team cannot be ignorant of what information is already floating around the internet – and embarrassing the government is as good a strategy as any.
          If the many odd twists and turns of the official narrative can be explained with evidence with little damage to the state – then I would expect the defense to do a roll over and blame TT, again forcing as many uncomfortable disclosures as they prepare to save DT from the death penalty.
          However, at this point, I think the official narrative is full of too many holes, and I cannot see how the state accounts for them.

        • Missie Baker

          Re: discussion below of unexploded devices and additional explosions, here’s a BFD scanner reporting bomb squad exploding device at Huntington and Exeter. (Occurs roughly 1/3 into the recording) Early on, reports JFK library fire. There is a another reference to Huntington & Ring Road for bomb squad reporting. http://areg.radioreference.com/20130415/1/201304151442-384646-497.mp3

        • olball coach

          yes, listened.

    • Missie Baker

      The street went from very busy to nearly empty around DT in what appears by the drifting smoke top of buildings to have been less than fifteen seconds. Per d greens description his photo was taken just a few seconds after second explosion. Convenient and irrefutable as AP vetted the shot and time stamp… And I assume the sequence of the two photos is correct.

      • olball coach

        Re: the Green photo
        Like I said earlier, I followed a raging debate on another blog between to professional videographers and one said it was shopped and the other said now way. They reached agreement on one point and that was – if Green had sent the photo to the FBI first before publishing it and it was then distributed by the FBI after being vetted – then there was a possibility the FBI could have doctored the photo at some level of sophistication unknown to the public and/or commercial markets. no one ever followed up to let readers know how this turned out. My guess is its legit otherwise Green would have said something – he looks pretty straight up.

        • Missie Baker

          When even the professionals disagree, I guess that is something. Re: DT/bag/sidewalk/Forum compilation photo:

          One) It’s too good to be true. The perp, the weapon, majority of victims all captured in one neat package for LE. One photo no less. Possible, but probable?
          Two) Seals the deal. The photo draws the same visceral reaction from everyone: who but a monster sets a device next to child? Guilty!
          Three) How? We cannot see DT’s face clearly, but we can read the words on the signage hanging from the Forum windows.
          Four) Incredible Timing? The street along the barricade is empty with the exception of our running man–perfect and clear view of the victims and the knapsack. (or cropped to eliminate runners closer to the camera–or a long-range lens? This wasn’t taken with a cellphone.) Busiest time of race, too.
          Five) Inconsistent? Was this image released to illustrate DT dropping the bag and walking away–it tells the story of a vicious individual. (We know the timing now.) But not the crim complaint story, apparently.
          Six) Is this all? It’s the perfect opportunity to show a full face, not profile, of DT by knapsack but didn’t. Why?
          Seven) Reinforcement. Viewer “owns” the authenticity of the photo, makes the connection to the smaller DT profile photo released by FBI on the 18th.
          Eight) Sketchy Provenance? Who took it, released it, and why? Why wouldn’t the FBI claim this full view image on their site? Or have posted it on 4-18? (date it appears, although some MSM hedged, hinted source was uncertain.)
          Nine)Stitched? It’s roughly 45′ of unimpeded street level view of the site. Is it stitched? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panoramic_photography Would it be considered a panorama–much longer than height? It seems more than the human eye would “see” (160 x 75)
          Ten) Original subject? Most interesting, now that we know the background, who or what is the main subject? Wouldn’t it be the runner–and that raises the issue we already know.
          Eleven) Professional? It’s too clear to be a surveillance camera image–we’ve seen an example of that in the photo of DT standing behind Ms. Sdoia speaking on his cell–those edges look softer. As you’ve noted, this looks like a still photo. (except for the blurry image of DT and that messy 7 or 3, but that’s not part of this comment)

          I’m sure you can add more!

        • olball coach

          No – I cant right now – I am stunned. This is nothing short of a surgical dissection. (R U listening Russ?) I knew this and wanted to make, but was unable. Whew! I fall back to what I said earlier regarding trial – and will add – you may have enough of an arguement here for at least reasonable doubt. I am certain some doubt can be raised regarding Collier, the carjacking and the shootout: is it enough? Nice effort – I tip my hat.

        • Missie Baker

          RD is on the far horizon for anything other than the MIT event because we’ve been told Fed’s bag of evidence has a video of DT dropping knapsack. However, “I can discern nothing in that location in the period before the explosion that might have caused that explosion other than Bomber Two’s knapsack.” is a process of elimination statement, yes? Agent bases this crim complaint statement on observing video and photographic images from different angles “including directly across the street.” (and refers to DT as Bomber, not suspect.)

          As this article notes, the prosecution holds all the cards. We only know brothers milled around from some period before 2:41 up to 2:42pm half-block from the restaurant-possibly the site of the WESH2TV photo, although DT appears to be in front of the Atlantic Fish, not the Crate & Barrel. Minus access to the complete Boylston street CCTV tapes, there are the curiosities of the multiple unexploded devices in the vicinity and site victims’ eye witness accounts (that do not make mention of DT’s 4 minute sojourn front of Forum.)

          (post re: the DT sidewalk photo is just a summary of what we’ve been exploring downthread, but thanks)

        • olball coach

          I’ll believe the video when I see it. If the video is the key piece of evidence and this is as cut and dried as we are continually being led to believe – where is it?

          I don’t think they would have gone to the lengths they did demonizing the brothers, family, Islam etc., needlessly for days and weeks on end after the bombing, if:

          1) they had a video,
          2) and instead have only the pictures above you destroyed above

          3) Momma T had not spilled the beans on the FBI relationship and called into question the FBI’s handling of the search for the bombers and the release of the pictures,

          4) the cluster fudge Collier shooting, silly carjacking and mutiple shootouts involving more than the brothers, DT’s search and capture,

          5) Uncle Ruslan and Graham Fuller had not got dragged in to the story, and the further release of CIA involvement and his overseas travels,

          6) they didnt “have” to go after DT’s friends (who naively hid his laptop) to retrieve DT’s laptop with damning information, and,

          7) they didnt “have to go all the way to Florida to eliminate Ibragim Todashev who had not seen TT for over a year,
          8) they – LE (FBI & CIA) didnt have to hide from local law enforcement all they new about TT and still refuse to testify before the Senate sub committee charged with looking into this matter – (and the public only finds this out 2 months later from Boston PD Commissioner Davis.

          Something happened in the days that immediately followed the bombing (Plan A – arrest, arraignment of “a” suspect and CNN walk back oops hilarity) that sent this series of events off into “seat of your pants” land (a Plan B that no one told the Plan B participants about?). And, it has only tentatively recovered pending trial. I remain convinced the last thing the FBI wants is a trial.

          None of this, post bombing, would have, or should have happened had they had an iron clad grip on the video, case, and more importantly, the public narrative. I think the “resigning” of DeLauniers is a sign that there is concern if not panic by the higher ups.

        • Missie Baker

          http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/aan-ap-source-arrest-imminent-in-marathon-bombings-20130417,0,3490615.story
          Re: your final paragraphs, Jeff Bauman gave FBI specifics that quickly narrowed down suspect description and Mother T reported TT told her FBI had contacted him, with his retort being “that’s your problem” (per article you cited downthread.)
          Another unusual reaction from the brothers: if as per link, the local media was reporting Wednesday the Lord & Taylor camera had spotted the suspect, why did the brothers wait 24 hours before moving? (TT had to arrange child care?) Is your theory TT was told FBI had the evidence, but he thought he was immune from prosecution? (“that’s your problem?”)
          Interesting this article says the source for the FBI retracted story stood by his leaked information.

        • olball coach

          First, if TT was dressed like a Craft operator – what specifics is Bauman going to recall while in shock and medicated – then later is reinforced by pictures, debriefing etc.,
          Second, it was reported the day of – surveillance had picked up “a” suspect carrying two backpacks. And then it was reported on Tuesday – that surveillance was focusing on several men (REDDIT, 4Chan all took off) and meanwhile Alex Jones had outed the Craft guys – I remember the talking heads saying this was a tedious, methodical process – going over literally hundreds of photos, and surveillance. – Then the next day the BIG annoucement first reported by John King (CNN) and then AP, Fox – that there was a suspect in custody, an arraingnment was coming, a press conference and then – the walk backs – the bomb threat at the court house – gloating by other networks mea culpas by CNN.
          My theory – is in this interval, between the first reports of surveillance picking up “a” someone – to the walk backs – is when something happened that changed everything drastically. Jones’s conspiracies picked up momentum – MSM was reporting suddenly reporting a “stall” in the investigation –
          Momma T reported that the FBI called TT on Wed. and that is when she quoted him as brushing the FBI off. On Tuesday and Wednesday TT is reported to have been taking care of his daughter. In the meantime DT went back to school acting like nothing happened – this is when he tweeted the “don’t believe everything you see” comment when someone tweeted him how awful the bombing was. I believe the brothers sincerely thought they had done a small job for (?) as they had several times in the past – and had done nothing wrong. They probably didnt think there was evidence because they originally thought it was a drill, and then, on learning it was very real, naively thought they hadnt done anything wrong anyway.
          It is the collaspe of the press conference and arraignment, coupled with the brothers resistance to go along – is where I believe around this time – where the FBI starting to lose their grip on the situation.

        • Missie Baker

          Completely agree re: TT’s “uniform” matching the other dudes with black backpacks. (Proven they were Craft ops, or were they Legit Emergency Disaster team–I saw something about that somewhere??) It was a dramatic story by Mr. Bauman! Media ran with it. (Still a fan of his)

          The big picture, stringing together the facts as you have done here to find alt explanations eludes me. Meanwhile, what is that square dark shape in the Bresnahan photo at the feet of the victims you mentioned earlier? All these small bits begin to fit together.

          Update:: HuffPost 6/29

          Sabrina Dellorusso, who was
          with her at the marathon but barely suffered a scratch, called Sdoia the kind
          of friend who would call early on a weekend morning to make sure you got up to run a 5K with her. (My edit: Sabrina is standing on the other side of Darrel Folkert and is the unharmed friend I’d been wondering about earlier.)

          On April 15, she (Sdoia) saw a flash
          of light at her feet while watching for a friend to pass her on Boylston Street
          on the way to the race’s finish line. Then she heard a popping noise and
          realized it was too late to run away.

          (Another account said Ms. Sdoia turned to run as she heard Norden group say get over the barricade, saw it at her feet, and couldn’t get out of the way.)

          Just looking at the physical layout, the wrong-colored backpack is sitting on the sidewalk east of the tree, not on the grating (which appears to be roughly 5′ W x 4′ D–a rectangle? do any overhead photos you have confirm this shape?) Many people have commented on this as well. (I would expect 6′ minimum between grating and Forum patio edge fence–I’ve been on that street but too many years ago.)

          I wonder if Ms. Sdoia would have tried to push her way backwards against the Norden group of men–and others– scrambling to get over the barricade, per Jarrod Clowery, who was on top of the barricade at the time of explosion? We also have Mr. Fucarile pushing forward with this group, and his subsequent position post-explosion has been well-documented.. (I do regret speaking of them so after all they have suffered.) And we have Darrel’s story: he was spared worse injures from the mailbox. He could have scooted east around it as the Norden group surged West and away from the first explosion and then toward the closest barricade. Does this fit with your earlier analysis of debris? What about that darker shape behind feet of victims?
          I’ve found five reported versions so far of the horrific catastrophe that befell the Richard family. Confusing, but family group appeared separated as there are images of papa in the street. Perhaps he climbed the barricade to help others over, was helping elder son when disaster struck?

          Still puzzling. Could the device have been by the tree, not on the sidewalk 5′ or 6′ away? Dark shape?

        • olball coach

          “The big picture, stringing together the facts as you have done here to find alt explanations eludes me.” I know – I resisted going over to the “dark” side as long as I could – but I dont think we would be having this conversation if not for the revelations of Momma T, which lifted the curtain.

          The grating (picture below) is overall a rectangular shape but made up of square – what look like @ 2’x2′ squares of grating fitted together. Its overall size looks at 8′ long by roughly 6′ (smaller pieces of grating may have been used to get a custom fit). My eye ball from these pictures is that distance from the grating to the patio fencing is slightly more than the grating itself. The pack does not appear to be resting on the grating – but neither the sidewalk – it’s seems to be on top of the black object. (more later)

          My earlier thoughts on the debris field were based on where the victims fell and where bomb bits are lying on the ground. As I said earlier (and I think the picture below bears this out) it looks like the debris field extends from roughly the tree (or area nearby) in a 3/4 arch. Notice there is little if any bomb parts or bits in the area behind the mail box towards the Starbucks as compared to the obvious markings behind and in front of the tree.

          There was a guy way way down thread who argued the bomb was on the patio of the Forum and indeed the Forum printed a statement saying as much on their website. But I dont think there is evidence for it. The reason the windows blew has been explained on numerous news shows: the bomb blast produces a rush of air in all directions – in this case the air blew into the Forum and was trapped under the over hang thus building up and bending the windows beyond what they could handle.

          I havent an idea on what that strange “something” is behind Mrs Richard and the bottom of her foot appears to be braced against it or the tree (?). But looking again at this – the barricade is located behind the mail box and therefore runs over the outer edge of the grating. From where Mrs Richard is standing its a reach to brace her leg against the tree – which is at least 2 feet away, accounting for the grating, and another foot or so, accounting for the dirt opening in the grating that the tree comes out of. Hmmm? Thats a mighty long leg you have ma’am.
          On the other side of the tree – where the pack is, if as you say it is not on the grating – that puts it in the sidewalk and in the walkway. First person to walk past is going to notice it there and turn to DT and say “excuse me sir” or any of those guys standing righ there would do the same. One more point, that means he stood in the walk way for 4 minutes. Crowds have a mind of their own and if you are blocking traffic, you get enough excuse me’s and dirty looks to motivate, force or push you to a place where there is no traffic.
          Finally, I have resisted talking about Mr. Richard because it would be speculation and we simply don’t know what happened to him. All I will say is that it is odd that he is on the other side of the fence. I dont believe elder son made it past barricade until after explosion.

        • olball coach

          here are the piks I was referring to.

        • Missie Baker

          So many incongruities. At some point, a comprehensive document needs to be assembled. Don’t think you have drifted to dark side, BTW.

          Now that we know the cellphone origin of photo, and that Mr. Mass State Trooper is friend of photographer, as I’ve written earlier, either the photo is doctored or the backpack isn’t his. I vote for the latter explanation, as we know it doesn’t match the FBI photos.
          Amazing catch on the leg length issue. Esp. as she has her knee popping through the bars what looks to be a good six inches. Guess I was wrong about the grating, I’ve checked google maps, and agree the grating looks 8′ x 6′. (Four 4’x3′ pieces with a 2′ cutout in center) I should check a local grating supplier–prob. get a spec. I’m sick of searching for dimensions on green drop boxes–tried again just now–nothing.
          Your points re: blocking the pathway apply to no one noticing DT as well–if he was a nuisance. (and distance trunk to fence–definitely more like 10′ from overhead photo–maybe 12′)
          So what is that dark shape? A trash receptacle–it was originally reported the IED were dropped in trash cans…too easy.
          And my (maybe) last comment re: Bresnahan photo–looks like she was elevated a bit above street level, or perhaps that’s a telescoping effect of distance. Cellphone imagery distorts. I’ve tried to recreate the angle on Google by lining up mailbox and Forum sign, just not working.
          Think I’ll go search grating sizes now.

        • olball coach

          what do you suppose they are looking for?
          dont think it was a trash recpt – not enough debris, and one of those cast iron ones would still be there.

        • Missie Baker

          Roach clip DT left behind? Somebody lose a contact lens? BBs? (small enough to go through that grating) Does it convince you top of grating was the exact location of the device?
          I’m very frustrated because I’m wondering if DT might have set down the backpack anywhere else along Boylston and we have no surveillance video to search. I’d like to find imagery showing LE disabling those unexploded, er, innocent bags, backpacks, etc. that were evidently all over the crime scene area. But turned out to be “nothing.”
          Just saw your post, Getty images credits copyright to Cate Bresnahan. She lists Mass State Trooper Blue Runner on her facebook page as friend. (I don’t believe her name was on the site when I checked more than a month ago.) Surprised she hasn’t been interviewed, but all those pesky questions. Guess this explains why the origins were sketch.

        • olball coach

          I originally thought the grating might have been damaged – but then I looked at the later photos and decided everything looked fine and – then tonight I thought maybe “they” replaced it. Naw – forensics guys are’t going to do that – would they?

        • Missie Baker
        • olball coach

          wow.

        • guest

          Missie baker and olball coach – I can’t stop returning to this page to see what new clues you two have come up with. (I’m dying for Russ to write something about the “car jacking” too as promised.) This whole situation is so fishy – and everyone in Boston seems to have bought the official story – or maybe, like me has kept quiet about not buying it lest we be labeled whackos or “Jahar fangirls” (can a 40 something year old lawyer even be a fangirl?) Anyway, thank you both for staying on it and making me feel not so isolated and crazy in my skepticism!

        • Missie Baker

          You are welcome.

        • medianotes6

          They found parts of the detonator electronics under the grate, or at least a circuit board that they said was the device built into the bomb for the purpose of detonation.

          Maybe this part the electronic strip caught their eye. Its alfully convenient that it would sitting on top of the grate, unburnt and intact.
          http://www.wesh.com/news/central-florida/volusia-county/daytona-beach-man-says-he-captured-picture-of-boston-marathon-suspect-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-moments-before-blasts/-/12983450/19892514/-/item/1/-/6v4tu3z/-/index.html

        • Missie Baker

          Looks pretty well-preserved for having been though an explosion and jammed beneath the grate with some not insignificant force. I’ve wondered about something planted beneath the grating–but the openings would be too small to cause the serious injuries. Given any thought to something beneath the grating as a triggering device for an otherwise innocuous item on top of the grating? (But doesn’t seem likely.) I’ve also dismissed the idea something was planted in the sandbags anchoring the barricade fencing–although both bags seem to have been destroyed in the explosion at the Forum.

        • medianotes6

          Have you seen the article below? It discusses an alternative place for the second bomb.

          http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/

          [I first found this link from E.F.Beall’s blog
          http://my.firedoglake.com/efbeall/

          Its premise is basic and its trying to be as simple as possible to show what could and could not result from an explosion that originated at the alleged location. For all its simplicity, its more science than we’ve been offered so far by the prosecution regarding the location of blast ignition, or anything else in this case. Scrolling down 2 articles below it, he introduces a guy that was at the Atlantic Fish Market that felt that the planter between the AFM and the Forum patio was the only thing between him and the blast.

          As for the grate – I can’t say whether something beneath it could trigger a bomb sitting on it, but there does seem to be long settled dirt and pebbles in the holes. Either way, I doubt a circuit board originating above or below would survive so well. Even the parts are intact. Not broken, cracked or bent or burnt. Maybe planted.

        • Missie Baker

          Hadn’t seen the article, but enjoyed reading it. I wonder how Woody Box would comment on Ms. Sdoia’s accounts of the IED exploding at her feet? Or maybe there were two explosive devices, which accounts for how Ms. Abbott was blown into the doorway.

        • medianotes6

          From what I’ve read Ms Sdoia saw a flash of light at her feet but heard the pop afterward; she registered the flash as an alarm, then heard the pop, concluding it was too late to run. Being able to distinguish these two events means it had to be far enough away that the lag between flash and slower moving sound was discernable. That lag might even help to determine how close and how far it could have been, but from her words, it doesn’t sound like it was really at her feet.
          Its too bad they were quick to remove the tree, it seems like it would have to have had a lot of schrapnel damage on the one side where the pack was dropped, if it was the bomb.

        • Missie Baker

          Have you taken a very close look at the Daniel Roberts video–middle section shows base of tree.

        • olball coach

          Okay – help me out here?
          No, I dont.

        • Missie Baker

          :43-:57 What is being collected by BFD? Investigator on scene that quickly? How likely is that?

        • olball coach

          I dont think of the videos by name but by what they show – old school I guess – who is Daniel Roberts – or better what video is he good for?

        • Missie Baker

        • olball coach

          there are other BFD people on hand – I dont know – but he is not aiding people and he has interest around the tree. If you look hard there is still smoke smoldering from the sidewalk or beneath the grates.

        • olball coach

          Okay 2 things:

          my OCD flared up this morning and I have watched this video too many times.

          First, that BFD is an older gentleman; he speaks to no one, he helps no one, he moves straight in and zeroes in on the tree and its base or hole around it.

          He is wearing a longer jacket than the other BFD’s, he has one larger bag that is clipped to his jacket in two places and the smaller object looks like a camera or some device in a case or a bag.

          Now early in the video there are clear shots right on the base of the tree, and white towl. On the right side of the tree in the hole but next to the white towel there is something, textured and black poking out from the ground just visible above the grating. This black “thing” appears only on the right side of the tree and it is clear the remainder of the hole
          is free of debris.

          The BFD leans in to the tree, grabs and pulls the larger bag around to his front. At .50 on the ground in front of him (as the camera zooms in – something shiney and metallic appears at his left foot. and bends to one knee and places the bag on the ground. The last thing I see is his gloved hand reach down below the grating as if to pick something up. There

          This is a very frustrating video because it seems (as far as I will go) that the women in jeans with a blue scarf is deliberately standing in front of him – fiddling her scarf – blocking the camera view. At .45 she looks at the camera turns and looks at the BFD guy and steps in front of him. His body turns slightly towards her as if responding to her. Others appear in front of the camera but this is the one that catches your attention. Deep breath.

          You can see from 1:14 to 1:24 the BFD is still at the tree.

        • Missie Baker

          Yeah. To everything–I observed the same, captured a few stills for my collection.
          “He’s got a camera” When informed that was what kneeling chubby dude in gray tee was saying to jean-clad girl–I could see it. But I wouldn’t have picked it up on my own, and still not sure I believe it. (Public Servant Watch was right?) Her subsequent actions seemed to enforce that interpretation, though.
          Daniel Robert–there is one in Worcester under photography–MySpace and FB. C/be. Comments section on YouTube was he’d posted a snippet on April 22. Found that ref on FB, he’d closed down that acct–it had 1940+views. Some questions re: why he waited to post until May 7–when he opened new account to post this video. Why the delay in posting this version, he was asked in the comments? (That dialogue may be gone from the account page.)
          I also find this video’s angle interesting. This appears to be shot with a standard video-camera–very crisp images and he zooms in and swings it around like a bigger piece of equipment. (Would a “professional” user of equipment have blurred that much tape, though? Doubtful) It is taken from the very same location as the photo of DT with Mass State Trooper. Notice that this equipment–certainly more professional than a cellphone–cannot capture the detail on the faces (such as seen in still photo of those standing by tree pre-explosion–the Richard family) across the street AND pickup the long shot of spectators and the tops of the buildings with the signage. I’m making this judgment call by checking the first 10-15 sec of this video. He has to zoom in to see faces, then loses the building signage and more than say 15-20 feet of sidewalk. (Unless you believe this video was shot with a cell.)
          I digress. BFD dude zeros in on that tree truck on the right, ignoring smoking backpack remains to his right in the street, and underfoot (steps over it.)Why did the jean-clad girl (LE?) shake out her scarf to mask whatever he was collecting… It was evidence, and didn’t want the media(?) to see it? Why do I think this “evidence” should have been preserved in situ for the FBI to collect…didn’t they send 50 white-suits to the site same day? Is it SOP for BFD to swoop in on what seems likely to be a Federal case (a bomb in a public place) to collect evidence? Black lumpy thing. I suppose there is a reasonable explanation. Perhaps jean clad girl is FBI agent and was directing BFD to collect evidence. Still seems hurried and sloppy–and why not get the easy pickings in the street along the way?
          And now my personal favorite–pink lady. C/she be LE?

        • olball coach

          Okay now I am creeped out.
          I just realized chubby guy pointed at the camera when he said that – immediately before she turned and looked at camera as well.
          I just realized that is the same angle of the blue runner pik. If taken by two different people they could have been standing next to each other.

        • olball coach

          “Is it SOP for BFD to swoop in on what seems likely to be a Federal case (a bomb in a public place) to collect evidence? Black lumpy thing.” Yes and No, yes if it is assumed it is a local jurisdiction event, No, if it has higher, graver implications.
          “I suppose there is a reasonable explanation.”
          I dont, this is getting creepy.

        • Missie Baker

          Just now getting creepy? You have a slow fuse–I thought the WESH2TV photo was creepy/chilling.

        • olball coach

          So lets get back to that WESH2TV shot. Time stamped at 2:44 that is just 0:5:43 minutes from the blast. I am thinking the Leonard photos (why did Leonard shoot piks seemingly centered on them?) are what the criminal complaint are basing the time they loitered around before they seperated. Only problem is they did not know the WESH2TV existed and shows DT pulled again up before the Forum. Does 5:43 from that position to the blast fit into the criminal complaint? We already know the blue runner pik does not fit the criminal complaint from DT walking away to win trooper crosses the finish line – can we go 2 for 2 on this?

        • Missie Baker

          Well, that’s an excellent question on those Leonard shots–what the heck was he shooting, anyway–just random crowd images? Following the bros?
          And what a good idea–did you do a google walk on the location of the bros up to the Atlantic Fish, and then take into account the crowd’s impeding a walker? (You told me where they and the pair from Norden group were standing in that Leonard photo, but don’t recall.) Then we could extrapolate. (2:38 when they turn onto Boylston–2:41 finds them standing where DT’s photo was taken) TT walked East from DT at 2:42 per crim complaint. DT waited 3 minutes, then waited another 4 minutes at Forum (less 18 seconds etc) before making the call and beginning his calm Westward trek. Why did DT have so much time to waste–we’ve never explored that.
          And why have we never been too curious as to the reason TT needed 7 minutes for what was a 2 minutes, 15 second walk? (Although he was pushing through the heaviest part of the crowd at the finish line. Might he have needed the extra time to achieve another objective before reaching his place beside Jeff Bauman?)

        • olball coach

          Okay here is my go at a timeline:
          2:37:34 they turn the corner from Gloucester to Boylston (FBI photo -time stamped)
          Race photographs show them in the background moving down Boylston at a casual pace. They stop at 867 Boylston, TT is pictured saying something to DT. He looks down at his phone. He appears to be waiting for something. A policeman in this series of pictures can be seen walking from the mail box before “Whiskeys” through the picture series on out of the frame of reference. Meanwhile, TT looks around. Another glance down to his phone as they begin to ease on down the street. This picture is especially clear and DT is seen holding an additional small bag, camera, or camera in a cloth camera case.
          A third picture is taken of TT looking down at his phone as they move past the front awning of 867. In the next picture you can see Steve Byrne, and Jarrod Clowey(sp) have walked past the brothers and are just in front of them. They state they arrived about 7-8 minutes before the bombs went off. One more picture of the brothers walking in front of the next store front and then no more. (Source – Leonard photos).
          The criminal complaint picks up from here. At 2:41 they are together and are described as having stopped 1/2 block away from the Forum. The complaint describes the Forum camera that picks them up – and also describes the Forum restaurant as being in the middle of the block (presumably between Fairfield and Ring). I take this to mean the brothers stopped at the corner of Fairfield at Boylston 2:41. Now, thats a shade over 3 and 1/2 minutes from entry onto Boylston and moving to Fairfield.
          The criminal complaint then describes TT as moving at 2:42 from their poisiton, taking 15 secs to walk to the Forum and through heading east on Boylston. DT remains in place until 2:45 and then moves into position in front of the Forum again taking 15 secs. The FBI offers two pictures of DT walking as proof of the veracity of their narrative. In the first picture it is muddled and unclear what if anything DT is carrying and in the second – there is no visible bag, or back pack. Both piks appear to be sequential and taken right after the other. Now this tightens the timeline considerably. The first bomb explodes at 2:49:43, @ 4: 28 secs from this point in the narrative.
          However, a contradiction occurs here. There is a photograph taken of DT, time stamped at 2:44 – standing directly to the side of the 3nd tree from the 2nd bomb blast – google maps show this tree to be the outside edge of the Atlantic Fish Co restaurant. He is looking up Boylston towards oncoming runners and he does not have a back pack strap on his right shoulder as all the other pictures show.
          There is no mention of this stop by DT, and presumably since the surveillance camera was able to pick up the brothers coming from Fairfield, this spot and should have been easily captured and included in the narrative. As we have shown above the timline cannot be compromised or fudged any further.
          to be continued……

        • Missie Baker

          This is too much, I really must take some time to process this, but something seems amiss–something to do with the CCTV images. Have we tried to sync them up with the WESH2TV photo–do the edges line up, can we see anyone in all three photos? I want to go back and look–if he lost the camera bag (which does seem very clearly to be present in that Leonard photo) how could that have happened, or alternatively, happened while he stood at the edge of the Atlantic Fish Co? Maybe we are missing something. I say this because DT is on the move in those photos, but how far away would that Forum camera have been set to record? Crim complaint states it was 15 sec from pt. A to pt. B–we need an on site investigator. The trick is, was he standing for the full three minutes at “half-a-block away”–in front of Crate & Barrell (per complaint) or was he on the move? And perhaps not in any surveillance coverage? Those Forum CCTV photos appear to have captured DT between the sign and the tree (that tree) but is that right? (checking)

        • olball coach

          thats kind of why I stopped before linking up with your analysis of the “blue runner photo” –
          Not sure we have the where-with-all to get closure. I am satisfied pointing out the contradictions and seeing how this squares with trial – IF IF IF…
          Nevertheless, in answer to question, No, the edges are not lining up just like the blue runner photo and crim complaint – it’s off – and in my book that’s just enough to call the complaint into question again.
          Yes, he was on the move. So, how could he be pictured at 2:44 with nothing on his right shoulder – and then pictured on the move with something and then nothing at between 2:44 and 2:45? Thats my point – its a contradiction.
          However, you threw me a curve here. Crate & Barrel” – per complaint? I didnt see that in the complaint. Just the description that the Forum surveillance camera caught them 1/2 a block away. By deduction based on the complaints description that the Forum was in the middle of the block – 1/2 a block makes that Fairfield and Boylston…?
          btw: google maps Crate & Barrel and what do you see right in front.

        • Missie Baker

          It’s a permanent trash can Sherlock. I don’t believe these photos tell the story in the official sequence. In fact they now give me a creepy sensation. And I should have clarified I was speculating the crim complaint meant crate and barrel by the phrase half a block away because did not say corner of or in front of restaurant there at the corner. I keep coming back to that word in this context…”apparently” “he then can be seen apparently slipping his knapsack on the ground at bomber twos feet.”
          I need to read para 11, 12, 13 again because this is where there might be ambiguity. And it seems the crim complaint references the vertical CCTV still we have of DT. More later

        • olball coach

          It’s elementary Watson – isn’t it a reasonable possibility that the trash can s one place he could have left that back pack of his per instructions by his brother – while TT walked down the street to leave his. Its reasonable that surveillance picked him up just before he dropped it. This notion supports one possible explanation for the WESH2TV photo where he has nothing on his right shoulder. It supports a reasonable possibility that he walked onto the Forum patio without a backpack, and decided against going further. Maybe the first explosion went off and he left in a slight panic following the 1st explosion, unwittingly making himself available to being photographed in various positions in the Forum area – making it easier to shop. With all this photographic evidence sited in the complaint – why else would they have to shop their own “blue runner” photo and present it to the public as real. The blue runner photo as you have outlined, is not believable, contradicts the crim complaint and was obviously a poor choice to manipulate to achieve their ends. I am sensing more Keystone Cops bungling.

        • Missie Baker

          All good, and there’s that word “apparently” relative to DT slipping his backpack onto the sidewalk. (which then was only visible from across the street) Could the narrative possibly be inferring there was nothing else the Agent could see in the photos in the area of the explosion, so the IED must have been in whatever DT slipped onto the ground…now that would be weird and illogical.

        • Missie Baker

          Do you find the pop-pop noise account compelling? What if those pop-pop sounds were two pipe bombs that would fit into that black camera case–could they be remotely triggered? Just a random.

        • Missie Baker

          Whoops, I just wrote a post agreeing with you about this disconnect for DT timeline. What were going to write next, with the TBC line?

        • Missie Baker

          Well, every time I read the crim complaint, I come up with a new insight (for me, at least.) Here we go again:

          “Approximately 15 seconds later, he can be seen stopping directly in front of the Forum Restaurant and standing near the metal barrier among numerous spectators, with his back to the camera, facing the runners. He then can be seen apparently slipping his knapsack onto the ground. A photograph taken from the opposite side of the street shows the knapsack on the ground at Bomber Two’s feet.” *****

          Agent then recounts how DT stood in the same spot for 4 minutes (see below) before making the call 30 seconds before first explosion & presumably captured in the photo of DT standing behind Ms. Sdoia, knapsack somewhere over by the tree–creating a trip hazard on the sidewalk or not. Then 12 secs later first explosion occurs, and while everyone is facing East towards the loud noise & smoke, he begins to walk West.

          **** except, problem, that photo of blue runner taken from opposite side of the street– if that was meant to be this photo of DT after he “apparently slipped his knapsack to ground” referenced in the criminal complaint–which everyone was likely in fact thinking who read this document–we know the timing is simply off.

          (Actual description continues from crim complaint: The Forum Restaurant video shows that Bomber Two remained in the same spot for approximately four minutes, occasionally looking at his cell phone and once appearing to take a
          picture with it.) (No one saw him, or thinks it important to recall seeing him, blocking the sidewalk with knapsack at his feet.)
          And in blue runner photo, DT’s back is to the sidewalk, not the restaurant camera.
          GTS.

        • olball coach

          It just keeps sinking in how sick this thing has become, deliberate obfuscation, deliberate withholding, deliberate fraud – I worked in government for over 30 years and I have seen gross incompetence, and I have seen cover-up of gross incompetence, but deliberate, planned and executed depravity is entirely a different ball game. And that’s where every piece of this puzzle keeps pointing too.

        • Missie Baker

          In spite of what we may be seeing, remember the good: sources who came forward to report that DT did NOT have a gun in the boat, Officer Donohue was NOT shot by brothers, DT asked for legal counsel and was denied, general if cautious outrage over DT not being read his Miranda rights within a reasonable time, preserving the right of a citizen to not be tried in a Military tribunal, the disclosures to date about Todashev with more to come, the admissions from FBI about TT & the Russians. I believe we’ll see the MIT incident combed through and true justice served, however it may develop.

        • Missie Baker

          Hmm, I don’t see anyone matching photos with camera I found for Daniel Robert on FB, the video photographer. (But I am more convinced than ever that the cellphone capture of DT was impossible, looking at the crowd across the street and the angle here.)
          And, c’mon, there’s the Lenox, a half block down is the Mandarin–two undetonated devices & evacuations….? Lone wolves? I’m having trouble accepting the Gov’s denials. BTW–never noticed that Adidas sign before at this site–was it kicked over by specs? (It’s just jarring.)

        • olball coach

          If you follow the crosswalk from right to left at the end of “left” is a man in a white t shirt with a small blue back pack, on his left is a runner blue tank and shades, on his right is a small man with a white hat holding with two hands what looks to be a video camera or a large camera. The angle is dead on for the quality ground level piks we are seeing. I see no other camera around.

        • Missie Baker

          Just checked, video shows the camera-man swinging his camera to his right,and we see across the side street to the closest corner of the Lord & Taylor. Believe cameraman is standing in front of First Republic Bank, on the corner. Also, I don’t see papa Richard in the video, but there he is again on the streetside, comforting oldest son in photo. Possible this image was taken before the video was shot???

        • olball coach

          Richard is there the whole time. The first images after the blast show him on the other side of the barricade. His son is seen looking over adults shoulders at I presume his mother, brother, sister. Dad works in around barriers hugs son looks in and I believe it is shortly after this pik – that he picks up Jane and brings her to the street and collapses – and the red shirt fire fighter kicks in. I believe the reason Richard is hard to see for some is that he is moving around a lot – I have a pik of him in the far left corner of the image on his stomach surrounded by people presumably comforting his wife – If you didnt recognize the tennis shoes you wouldnt know it was him.

        • Missie Baker

          Even stranger, I just reviewed the video again, and there’s that abandoned stroller–just on the side of where everyone is frantically working on the victims to the West of the tree. Individuals appear to be leaning around it, leaning over it, crouching by it. Why not move it out the way?

        • olball coach

          okay, I’ll ask, and how do you know pink lady be LE?

        • Missie Baker

          Victims scattered everywhere, but she nimbly scoots around because she still has an important question for taller man who impatiently brushes her off. (“I’ve got a roast in the oven, are you going to be late again?”) I simply enjoyed idea of her being undercover. Whatever her question, she tries with second man as well and gets nowhere.

        • olball coach

          you edited out my favorite part – your personality.

        • Missie Baker

          H’okay oh numb one–planting evidence??? R U crazy? (how original!)

          Lame joke? I put it back. (I’ve edited out many, many one-liners, because I felt it might be deemed disrespectful.) (actually, I’ve edited out much more than I’ve posted…now that’s scary.)

        • olball coach

          Actually, planting evidence is an idea growing on me. see the plastic bag on the side of the street next to the trash can. I started looking down the street to where the trash cans are located. Most store fronts where food is sold have a large metal rimmed container that a plastic bag goes inside of and then pulled out when full – left on the street for trash haulers.
          “Most” because there isnt one in front of the Atlantic, Forum or Starbucks the next two are on the outer eges of these stores. What is that black vertical something or other near, or around that tree – and blocks our look see behind those ladies onto the sidewalk? Plastic bag, a plastic can fit snuggly in the grate opening – I don’t know. But here are the photos that suggest something wasnt there earlier in the day and then appears in the magic photo.

        • olball coach

          oops forgot the plastic bag pik

        • olball coach

          Last thing, I see at least three black bags lying on the ground in this picture (2nd one) and in the first one below – See our elderly BFD dude leaving the scene – he was in and out in just a minute or so.

        • Missie Baker

          Would give much to see said photos–told you your archive would become invaluable. Thinking about posting these images?

        • Baby Blake

          I have been engrossed in this thread for a while now. I too have a huge archive of photographs and would happy to provide every single one of them if it assists in any way. What ones are you looking for specifically? Please advise and I’ll see if I can help out!

        • Missie Baker

          Wow: Black bags–as in trash bags? Do you mean the two to the left of the fireman striding in front of the Atlantic Fish, and planted near the grating for the tree??? Is that what you mean?? But it wouldn’t be a clear rectangular ‘dark’ shape. (great catch on the first batch of photos–that bottom one shows there is NOT a dark rectangular shape between behind the woman standing next to the tree—very clearly light colored area all around….very clear indeed.
          Bottom photo here: But could the figure bent over a victim (LL?) to the right of mailbox and barricade fencing be BFD dude? Looks like his shoes, jacket (with stripes) and orange/yellow vest? If so, wonder what he found over there?
          Finally, you didn’t tell me Ring Road is the short road between Lord & Taylor and the corner where First Republic Bank is sited. Ring Road was the reported location of a “non-bomb” device, I believe, but on the next street over from Boylston.

        • olball coach

          1) I mean the back packs – I know I jumped around a bit tonight – coffee after dinner. And all I was pointing out is that apparently a lot of people left blackpacks lying around.
          2) The BFD guy here is fiddling. I am thinking these guys were sent in to look for evidence – the question: whose evidence?
          3) Isnt that the place – 2 story building where people had to be helped down the fire escapes? I think I remember hearing about this on the scanner feed you sent me.

        • olball coach

          Here’s another speculative stretch: It seems the majority of undetonated devices reported to be found are on the opposite side of the street. Why? Is this a technique at crowd control or manipulation? Do you plant undetonated devices – find them and yell “there’s more” – this scatters the immediate crowd but then gets broadcast on everyones cell phone and gets spread like wild fire. The crowd nearest the bombs scatters in a screaming panic, the noise, the smoke, “there’s more in the trash cans” – instead of turning around and paying attention – everyone is running for their life. Now your BFD dudes can run in unnoticed and take or plant evidence.

        • Missie Baker

          Oddly enough, those two gray/black backpacks by the tree are where DT was standing at 2:44 for the Colin Seale photo capture…too bad one of them isn’t white with dual-colored carrying straps.

        • olball coach

          I think he was down one more tree – closer to the iron trash can in front of C&B.

        • Missie Baker

          We’ve got to consider moving on up (to top of thread–impossible to keep digging around for new postings!)

        • Missie Baker

          “What is that black vertical something or other near, or around that tree – and blocks our look see behind those ladies onto the sidewalk? ”
          Can’t see, can’t see, very frustrating. But hello, (tiresome me) another photo shot (cellphone or tape?) from across the street and cannot distinguish the faces clearly when far enough away to see a big swath of sidewalk.

        • olball coach

          I was referring to the last pik of the Richard family – we cant see through their legs because of whatever that blacked out vertical thingy – again another “piece” to the puzzle to call into question that we wont know the answer to until trial.

        • olball coach

          thats why I am thinking out of the box on this – what could possibly have been placed behind the folks watching the race – around/near/at that tree that block our view but not raise any suspicision? A trash container of some limited, no intrusive type – maybe recycling – is all I can come up with.

        • Missie Baker

          From the crim complaint:
          “I can discern nothing in that location in the period before the explosion that might have caused that explosion, other than Bomber Two’s knapsack.”
          Maybe Agent just couldn’t see it, because none of us believe that “knapsack” actually belonged to DT–if they are using some version of the blue runner photo (that I suspect must be manipulated, in case you forgot I felt this way.)
          GTS

        • olball coach

          No, I havent forgot.
          The crim complaint author cannot discern what he is not looking for. There is either a dark object there, roughly as high as the womens wastelines and maybe two to three tree widths wide. It is behind them – except it does seem, at ground level. to stretch to the opposite side of the grate and curl up under the back pack (closest to Forum). This gives the bag the illusion of looking like it is floating above the sidewalk or edge of grate.
          Now I have looked at several of these Richard’s family photos – and the best one for quality resolution is the getty images stamped – picture. Look at Mrs. Richards bent leg. Her leg melds into the barricade bar. The girl standing next to her is in an awkward standing. position. There is a hint of two shoes – but her legs, are not bent and are close together and slightly ahead of her torso. The back pack is seen through the bars behind her and just under her behind. No defintion to legs – just a slight texturing where her jacket ends.
          Now the guy on Mrs. Richards right (our left) and behind her with the dark jacket and it looks a strap over his shoulder. His pants leg also melds into the barricade bar.
          And the guy behind him in the tan sweatshirt and back pack – he apparently does not have any feet.
          My point to this excersize is that if you look the rest of the barricade over and the people standing on or in various postions of repose on it – have absolutely no photographic anamolies that I can see. Why only there? Why in conjunction with the blacked area or unknown black object behind Mrs Richard.

        • Missie Baker

          This is a great observation–only at this location are the missing legs, flat unnatural images and dark shapes found…I observed those items, but didn’t notice the other. How about: because it’s been manipulated in some way. (benign or not, I cannot say)

        • olball coach

          Maybe the BFD dude was planting evidence instead? My head is getting numb.

        • olball coach

          “Now that we know the cellphone origin of photo, and that Mr. Mass State Trooper is friend of photographer”

          What is this? Did I miss something?

        • Missie Baker

          BTW, are you on letsrollf? I googled his name and they were all over him relative to Site one, but didn’t seem to have made the connection to site two. Poster felixfelix makes him. http://letsrollforums.com/showpost.php?p=248049&postcount=1547
          And his facebook page shows photo of mass police car,but no other info. (again, he’s hardly a falseflag actor–just a good guy)

        • olball coach

          I cant believe this –

          two things: I read there that Mass Trooper finished at 4:09:12 – 30 seconds before the 1st bomb went. It took 15-20 seconds (I’ll confirm in the morning ) before he entered the scene at blast 1. So we can narrow the time frame of bomb blast 2 to within +- 5 secs (all else being true). 4:09:42 is 1st bomb blast 4:09:57 is @ second time. Now we must convert to real time and then we can take another look at the FBI timeline – All I have so far is the @ time of 2:49:XX.

          2) Recognize those two guys in the picture under the orange awning just ahead of DT? Steve Byrn and one of the buds from Stoneham (Nordin brother party) ? – http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/22/boston-marathon-bombing-victim-says-he-would-ask-suspect-why/

          the story says they arrived just 7-8 minutes before the first bomb. Ponder this and let me know what you think.

        • olball coach

          btw: stumbled on to this guy today – big picture stuff connecting the same dots we are finding. Decent writer too.

          http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/348979

        • Missie Baker

          Too bad he stopped short of making the CIA connection. Otherwise, learned some new background on FBI statement disconnects–worth it for that alone.

        • Missie Baker

          Great catch on the Norden group! Yes, definitely two of them. And in following these accounts, we know the Norden group victims suffered wounds and worse to right side of body, as did Ms. Sdoia. The victims on the west side of tree suffered injuries to left side of body (little Jane and Aaron.) Will read a few others as well for confirmation.

          Thought we agreed photo blue runner time at green drop box was approximately 1.5 minutes before second explosion, which has been clocked at 02:49:43, then 12 sec (some say 13, but I’ve listened to video on Youtube with second countdown–12) By the race clock it was 04:09:43 for first explosion and 04:49:57 for second–14 sec. I’ve read this several places. That’s what makes that photo of the street along Boylston where DT is later found walking by David Green so confusing; the race clock at mile 26 shows 4:50:05–but you can see the smoke from first explosion drifting over tops of buildings. (unless, dreadful thought, that was smoke from LE detonation of unexploded device, but the runners were stopped–last one to finish was 8 minutes after first explosion, so no) Somewhere I read race clocks were adjusted for the “waves” of runners, and that would explain the odd numbers/time on the clock–something like ten minutes between each wave of runners.

          Now, here’s a curious statistic, since you know something about sports, look for blue runner’s name on this list and see the time. (Don’t understand.)
          http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=trackandfield&id=9176251

        • olball coach

          Okay – I am pretty sure – since the Boston Marathon is qualifiers race only – only professional runners get listed on the ESPN or major sports sites lists. In most races there are two lists – one for the professionals who must qualify by making certain times in earlier races (less prestigious) to qualify to run in the more prestigious races – like the BM.

          I’ll bet race officials turned the clock off after they realized what was happening and thats why the clock on the Green photo looks so out of place/time.

          Now – another contributor to the letsrollforum – coverted the real time – finishing time of the blue runner as – 2:49:11.
          So let me step back and figure the timeing here – because my sense is that we are getting close to actually determining a legit iron clad timeline.

        • olball coach

          this timing is fairly certain having been based on film and official narrative.

          trooper finished at – 2:49:11
          1st explosion 2:49:43

          delta from trooper finish and first bomb
          0:32:32

          2nd explosion :14 secs later (race
          clock) at -2:49:57

          trooper emerges from behind the finish
          line at 2:50:11

          1 minute between when trooper finished
          race and re-emerges.

          distance from bag drop photo to finish
          line @ 1/10 th of of mile.
          time from bag drop photo to trooper
          finish – Min 30 secs – Max 60 secs

          Time from photo of bag drop to first bomb is 1:30 – 2:00 minutes. The guy looks fairly fit – so I am guessing closer to 1:30 than to 2:00 minutes.

        • olball coach

          This is an interesting website. Had some fun with some of the goofy stuff, but it has a wealth of piks and vids and comments not found anywhere else.

        • Missie Baker

          Link?

        • olball coach

          referring to letsrollforums.

        • Missie Baker

          Yes, my thoughts exactly. Great collection of images…beef up your archive.

  • Person

    Has anyone examined the first press conference at which law enforcement presented the photos of the brothers? Given the FBI’s knowledge of their existence, how is it that they presented the photos and then asked for the public’s help? They knew these guys, but couldn’t identify them? Assuming the photos were run through law enforcement databases prior to making them public and that attempts to identify them were unsuccessful, wouldn’t that tell you to just wear a backwards hat all the time?

  • olball coach

    Are these the CCTV photos you are talking about?
    The first was my 50/50 call – but now I am leaning towards he does not have the pack. Its certainly not visible and can only be inferred by his hand/thumb placement near something on his front left pocket. But a lot of other things could be inferred as well.
    The second picture is something altogether different? The pack looks – um – missing. Notice how he is holding the phone. Looks like he is reading from a GPS app to get to a specified location. The gal in blue appears consistent to each picture.

    • Missie Baker

      Exactly, and meshes withthe wesh 2tv photo. I want to see real evidence of bag drop before public opinion conviction. The mind sees what it wants or what it has been told sometimes.

      • medianotes6

        There is a dark bag hanging from straps attached to his backpack straps in the front. I think he is holding them to stabilize their motion. You can see these straps and some of the camera bag/carryall or whatever it is in Bob Leonard’s photo below. As for the Daytona kid’s photo (his name is Colin Seale), on the Leonard photo you can see that the backstraps sit on the flat portion of his shoulder and that there is a considerable space between that and the jacket’s collar cuff. The Seale photo was cropped much too close to the collar to determine if it had been dropped.

        That said, I doubt very much that either this or his backpack contains a 1.6 gallon, 30 lb pressure cooker, or if it did, that he would ‘drop’ it. Even his brother, according to J. Bauman, ‘put it down’. A pressure cooker is going to hit the pavement pretty hard. Nor would it make sense that he then stand next to it using a cell phone if it is a detonating device. The night of the ‘shootout’, everyone powered down their cell phones just for this reason after noting the number of packages left in the surrounding area.

        • olball coach

          It has been mentioned several times of a camera, and this picture is a clear indication “something” is there. The texture certainly suggests a small bag hanging from a strap as you say. Good catch.
          I would add, there is nothing in the crimimal complaint that suggests he spent any time fiddling with, or detaching a bag prior to dropping the backpack. It seems odd he would leave a second bag behind(?). And it may add precious seconds to an already difficult timeline that the crim complaint has boxed in the prosecution.
          One last thing, to your smart observation regarding the cell phone. In the piks I posted above, it is clear he is watching the cell phone carefully – as if he is being directed by a GPS app. Wouldnt any wifi or satellite electronics in the area, his or the crowds, be a threat to detonate his pack. Pretty gutsy to be walking through the crowd with a bomb set to detonate on an electronic signal. Or, is it a bomb?

        • medianotes6

          Good point; no matter what kind of filters they might have built into the detonating device, other microwave devices could generate these signals as well, even as a combination generated from several devices. Not to mention that no filter is perfect even when it works.

        • Missie Baker

          To your reply down-thread about location of device, Ms. Sdoia’s position thereto, and as per a suggestion from olball coach, I snagged some stories w/dates reporting what she recalled, including a live interview with PBS station. (summary is 32 comments from top of thread) The consistent details are she had to get away from the barrier, the crowd surged, and she heard a popping sound at her feet. It’s amazing she recalls this much–the other victims offer where they were and how they responded and felt. (A. Haslett-Davis was 4′ from the blast; Hern’s father was ten feet m/l; Yepez’s father was 5′ – 8′ down while his son David and Aaron stood closer, B. Costello was at the top of fence, H.Abbott was at the door to Forum on the patio, S. Bryne and D. Folkert claim they were partially sheltered by the mailbox.) That leaves the Nordens and M.Fucarile, the Richard family and the two Chinese students. (There also was the small blond child in the abandoned stroller and his parent(s) within the immediate vicinity.) I have trouble believing the device was on the patio in front of the Forum door or on the sidewalk in front, but that’s just me. Is it possible with the crowd pushing toward the barriers, the bag was kicked or shoved along a few feet, esp. if it did not have a 30′ lb pressure cooker inside, but something smaller? I thought it interesting that Ms. Sdoia, who actually saw it “puff up” has not been reported using the term “backpack.”

        • Emma Peel (Mrs)

          Could the dangling camera bag be a bulging pocket on his jacket, though (filled with e.g. wallet, cigarette lighters, etc.)? His backpack is hanging quite low, on his hip, and the clasp fastening – connecting the narrow and broad parts of the shoulder strap – are placed fairly high (at the front). Therefore, the ending of the narrow strap is dangling just above the pocket. Not that it really matters, apart from not having to account for another bag…

        • olball coach

          these are the clearest pictures I have seen thus far. In one the strap is holding whatever that is visible and in the other the texturing of the image suggests something hanging there as opposed to stuff drooping in a pocket.

    • Missie Baker

      Dissecting these photos a bit more: In the vertical still above from the Forum camera, DT is walking East, approx. 4′ from tree in front of the Forum patio, thumb hooked beneath something on his right shoulder. (see medianotes6 comment below) Backpack is not visible, much like David Green’s photo of DT walking back along Boylston after second explosion. (top photo shows him passing the eastern edge of the Atlantic Fish Co.) This is the Forum surveillance camera that has to capture him doing the deed.

      Yet here is the quote from the Criminal Complaint relative to the most important question–did DT place his backpack on Forum’s sidewalk at his feet or not? (This would be his gray backpack with black trim from the FBI released photographs and presumably surveillance camera tapes as the brothers turned the corner onto Boylston.) Because if he did, game over, plea deal him out, right? Prosecution has irrefutable video evidence–conviction guaranteed.

      Verbatim from the complaint:

      “Approximately 15 seconds later,
      he can be seen stopping directly in front of the Forum Restaurant and standing near the metal barrier among numerous spectators, with his back to the camera, facing the runners.

      He then can be seen apparently slipping his knapsack onto the ground.

      A photograph taken from the opposite side of the street shows the knapsack on the ground at Bomber Two’s feet.”

      Quoted from “FACTS & CIRCUMSTANCES” Para #13.

      The word “apparently” in this context is vague. One definition of “apparently” in Webster’s New World Dictionary: “3. appearing (but not necessarily) real or true; seeming.”

      I word searched the Criminal Complaint and the qualifier “apparently” appears only once in the document. So what happened–did the Forum camera (fixed or not?) miss capturing the actual placement of the knapsack by DT on the ground, if in fact it did. (Because the visual of the knapsack on the ground is only confirmed by a photograph taken from the opposite side of Boylston?)

      I just find this very curious language–does video show DT setting down his bag or not? Is this just sloppy writing? Were other spectators–or walkers–blocking the view from the Forum side?

      Criminal complaint continues:

      “The Forum Restaurant video shows
      that Bomber Two remained in the same spot for
      approximately four minutes,
      occasionally looking at his cell phone and once appearing to take a picture with it.”
      But not: “The Forum Restaurant video shows Bomber Two’s knapsack at his feet.”
      Now, before we spend too much more time on this, the Crim Complaint can be amended. Perhaps it has, as I believe it was Public Servant Watch who commented down-thread there have been several documents filed that have been sealed since the original complaint. Still, you can see where I’m going with this parsing–does video evidence exist or not?

      • olball coach

        and as we traveled down this road before – my answer is simply no it doesn’t. And if a video exists it is not definitive enough – and that is why the ginned up confession in the boat.

        • Missie Baker

          And that is why the first bedside confession, admissible or not as result of withholding of reading of Mirada, needed to be “anchored” by the written boat confession. (joke)

          In re: sealed court docs: http://www.uticaod.com/ghns/newsghs/x273443581/GateHouse-Media-files-letter-objecting-to-incomplete-docket-in-Tsarnaev-case?zc_p=0

          Now, I’m going to doggedly continue with the Crim Complaint (the copy to which the public is privy at this moment)

          “The Forum Restaurant video shows
          that Bomber Two remained in the same spot for approximately four minutes,
          occasionally looking at his cell phone and once appearing to take a
          picture with it. At some point he
          appears to look at his phone, which is held at approximately waist level, and may be manipulating the phone.

          Approximately 30 seconds before the first explosion, he lifts his phone to
          his ear as if he is speaking on his cell phone, and keeps it there for approximately 18 seconds.”

          Isn’t there a photo (or surveillance shot) you posted down-thread of DT standing somewhat behind Ms. Sdoia, holding his cellphone to his ear, no backpack strap on his shoulder? Would it be the scenario described above? Would it then be reasonable to infer he was standing behind her the entire time? Could that be where DT placed (or didn’t as it was only “apparently”) something on the ground? And it was something that could not be seen from across the street–that is why there is no photo showing the “knapsack” behind her, where he was standing for 4 minutes? Ms. Sdoia has said in more than one interview, she turned and the bag at her feet expanded and then blew up. Could ground zero have been behind her, and not at the base of the tree? Well, this is a lot of speculation; we know the prosecution has forests of data compared to the toothpicks released to the public and what has been posted by amateurs.

        • Missie Baker

          This is photo of DT behind Ms. Sdoia showing him on the cell phone for the 18 sec noted aabove then it’s 12 seconds until the first explosion. That’s the mailbox to the right. (larger image posted down-thread by olball coach)

        • olball coach

          I dont think that BFD guy would have moved in like he did, and neither would those white suit guys would have been digging up those grates if they were not damaged and there wasn’t something important in the ground. And we are only talking about 3 to 4 feet from mail box to tree. RS could have been jostled a foot or two with the crowd surge and the bag now appears at her feet. The bag is certainly not in the walkway as the blue runner photo suggests.
          Does she describe seeing a bag or the grey backpack? That would be interesting – cuz something was obviously there and something blew up – might be useful to have what she saw nailed down.
          I just don’t see him standing there for 4-5 minutes twiddling his thumbs – a 19 year old kid is going to move, sway, check out the girls, be polite and move out of the walk way, get thirsty, have to use the restroom – just not convincing to me.

        • Missie Baker

          Umm, I’ll check on finding her exact words relative to the bag–I only recall the word “expanded.” Now, about BFD dude–maybe he was hustling over because there was fake evidence planted there for the drill? Leaving it might have have confused the evidence trail? (Just a different way to explain the inexplicable.)

        • olball coach

          Exactly (re:BFD dude) to my earlier point – take everything we have figured out so far and now overlay it all with the fact there was a drill in place for that day, planned for months in advance, and “the bombers beat them to it” before they could execute the drill.
          Seriously, how does anyone proceed from this premise. How can you be sure you are looking at and analyzing something objective, at face value, or instead has been unknowingly compromised and what you thought it was.
          How does this get sorted out in trial?
          I am at a complete loss right now.

        • Missie Baker

          As per your earlier post, here’s a collection of her accounts–I’ve noted before, I would relish the opportunity to meet her, she is quite amazing:

          ABC News: April 26 “Those around her
          began to panic after the first explosion down Boylston Street. Twelve seconds
          later, the second bomb exploded 2 feet away from her and five friends.”

          WHDH: 4/27: “It was like, ‘pop’
          right at my feet it just popped up and then it was just a bad movie scene after
          that,”

          WGBH: May 7 Interview: She was with her four other girlfriends,
          they ended up going out to the road to watch the race, “and within a matter of
          minutes, the first bomb went off. I’m
          short, and I stood to the right of the mailbox to see friend Jen coming down the road, and (after asking gentleman next to her if friend Megan could squeeze in and he said he
          was waiting for his fiancé to come down the road, her friend Megan took a step back,….and the first explosion occurred.)“ I stood on the railing to see the smoke… “Get in the middle of the street,” a man called, but there were the barriers. I remember everybody trying to get out, get over, just kinda run.

          “There was just a pop-pop, literally at my feet, I thought it was more like grenades being thrown in, I thought it was hitting the ground, not knowing what was going on.” (transcribed)

          Yahoo Sports: 6/12 “I turned to run, and I ran right into the bag [carrying the second bomb],” she said Wednesday night. “I saw it puff up at my feet.”

          HuffPost 6/29/13

          On April 15, she saw a flash of light at her feet while watching for a friend to pass her on Boylston Street on the way to the race’s finish line. Then she heard a popping noise and realized it was too late.

          Fox Sports: July 4 (update) “There was a guy to the right of me who started yelling, ‘Everybody, get in the streets, get in the streets.’ But the barricade they had between the street and the runners was too high, and I was not going to be able to get over it. So I turned to my right to
          run away, and I basically ran into the bag that had the second bomb in it. And
          I just recall the pop-pop at my feet and then it going black…”

        • Missie Baker

          Are we looking at marathon events, saying we know a backpack bomb drill was planned, and thinking the drill went down on Marathon day, and then was denied later by authorities? What’s your theory on how the “drill” went live and why? This is what stumps me…it’s the curious piece I cannot make a connection fit. Were the brothers “actors” who played the part (you’ve mentioned holding the cellphone as if looking for GPS coordinates) and were given real ordinance–and were meant to take the blame? (“that’s your problem”) I don’t know, if as you say how to proceed, there’s no way on earth to track this down. Stymied is right. (We’d have to understand the motivations here for actors we can’t hope to identify.)

        • Missie Baker

          I think you are right, esp. as it appears DT was actually standing on the West of the first tree down from tree in front of Forum. There is at least one person, possibly two or three who appear in both the WEST2TV photo and the Forum CCTV camera still–the vertical shot. So this suggests that he didn’t hold position from 2:42 to 2:45 at “one-half block from the restaurant,’ but instead was moving forward to stand in front of AFC where he’s found by Colin Seale’s photo at 2:44. (It would seem the Forum camera has a limited field of vision, which would be expected–it’s turned “slightly towards Fairfield/West” and is mounted above the Forum door.) This means DT might have been off-camera, turned back around after 2:44 and made his way back to the “half-block location” before moving at 2:45 to reach the Forum location in 15 sec. Otherwise, this whole portion of the narrative makes little sense.
          So, is there a 3 minute period before 2:45 when his movements may be free of surveillance cameras? We can’t say.
          It def seems odd he’d stand behind Ms. Sdoia for 4 minutes, without her noticing him. In one of her interviews she says a friend of her’s moves to stand into the mailbox area by her and has to step back out and around it (my earlier post) because she’s displaced the man next to Sdoia…little bit of crowd jostling.

      • olball coach

        Did you know DHS admitted to have planned for months to run a drill the day of the BM – and as the above Globe article says – the bombing occurred before the drill could be executed? I didnt know this until an hour ago. I knew of the plans in writing as I ran into them a while back and shared them with you. But I knew nothing of this admission by DHS – apparently, neither did the MSM.

        • Missie Baker

          So, there was that twitter notice, later rather staunchly denied, of a bomb set to explode across the street from Site One at the public library, is that what you are referencing?
          Does this explain the presence of the canine nose-detectives, and the number of “undetonated” devices reported? Canines might have been “detecting” the planted devices, which were meant to be duds. Conversely, there was the one major explosion–set off by LE and/or bomb squad–about an hour post the second explosion–it shook the area, from reports I recall reading (and could find again.) In a worst-case scenario, our working canine friends on the job might have nosed out a real “third” bomb, but if so, left by whom, and where?

        • olball coach

          Before I dive into the detail – I want to know why this was revealed almost 2 months later on June 8th on the back pages of the Boston Globe? Why have there been no MSM reporting on this at all? Why hasnt Alex Jones taken out full page adds in the WAPO, NYT LAT USA today – and screamed “I told you so.”
          This is a giant piece of news that has everything to do with our analysis – dogs, private security contractors, the JFK incident, undetonated bombs found all over the place, including one that was blown up. All of which was planned months in advance by DHS.
          And most importantly – in this context, one can understand the brothers laid back response in the days following – and more to the point TT’s response to the FBI when they called him – “That’s your problem.” Or how about DT’s twitter response when someone messaged him about how horrible the BMB was – “Don’t believe everything you see.”
          Or more chillingly – the video of them standing in front of the Mercedez yelling “Chill, Chill, we didnt do it.”

        • Missie Baker

          Correct me if I’m wrong. I read storyleak and dailypaul. Globe details Urban Shield–eerily similar to Boston Marathon in some details but set for 2 months hence. Then the writer suggests that eyewitnesses at Marathon saw Craft personnel, canine detectives, and events suggestive of a training exercise. I believe the writer is careful to say he will update the readers. I don’t see anything on DHS admitting the Marathon was the planned exercise–just an unfortunate, unnerving coincidence to future exercise in Boston area. What article am I missing? As to why MSM doesn’t report–looks like once a story is filed,there is a standard insert to slap into the end of the article that recounts what was reported months earlier–we are never likely to see these “packaged” facts updated in our lifetimes–laziness.

        • olball coach

          DHS could say they have planned operation in November and we would be none the better for it. Why? Because, according to the Globe article the operations participants; including local LE, other agencies, volunteers or otherwise – dont know when, or what the next planned disaster is happening. They are not suppose to know the difference. So, it could be tomorrow or next year – we don’t know and never will know. Those plans and decisions to execute are made way up the chain.
          So then, compile all of this together and stand back for a moment:
          the morning Twitter about the controlled explosion on the 600 block;
          the bomb sniffing dogs,
          the extra LE presence at the BM as noticed by many
          additional private security (Craft is id’d)
          additonal state troopers are id’s (CST)
          the roof top spotters
          the repeated messages over the loudspeakers to stay calm – “this is only a drill”
          Following the 2 explosions:
          reports of multiple undetonated bombs found and deactivated; one is blow up
          the JFK report of bomb and fire
          leads reported of dark man or black with hooded sweat shirt, carrying multiple backpacks is being sought, and
          the Saudi national is tackled leaving the site, hospitalized and questioned by LE (Glenn Beck wets himself over this).
          Tuesday – Delauniers ignores questions related to whether Craft or other additional security measures were on hand and implemented. He also ignores questions whether some kind of drill was being run that day. (I believe from a legal perspective silence is not necessarily an admission of guilt – but it certainly speaks volumes otherwise)
          Davis – repeatedly says they had no intell on a threat, no intell threat….
          Then the REDDIT debacle and the fingering of the two runners.
          On Wednesday a break through is announced, an arrest is imminent and then done – an arraignment is scheduled and then, oops – just kidding.
          Then the let down – the investigation is stalling.
          Now thus far this is following the playbook of Urban Shield.
          The Thursday pressor, the chase, shootout, search and capture – similarly follow the plans laid out – not perfectly but close enough to make anyone wonder.
          Now, as I said earlier, I resisted the conspiracies for quite awhile and only recently started lean in this direction, because the evidence is pointing us to too many obfuscations, contradictions, and out right fabrications.
          Finding this revelation by DHS buried in the back pages of the Globe and only on the alternative conspiracy sites – completely ignored by MSM – is the final nail in the coffin for me. It pulls together all the conincidences, walk backs and oddities of the early news cycle together with the crude we have slogged through the past 2 months. It now makes the crazy discrepancies between the shapeshifting official narrative and the scanner chatter make sense. It certainly provides an appropriate and reasonable context in which to judge the revelations of Momma T regarding TT’s flippant response to the FBI – and DT’s stoned nonchalance the next couple of days. They were certainly a part of “something” that they had no idea they were a large part of and as I said before makes there crys to LE all the more awful.
          I wonder how Uncle Ruslan feels now, having drafted them into such a dirty business.

        • Missie Baker

          Yikes well I’ve said all along you are much better at stringing together the big ideas and this would be a whale. Laid out like this the one item you’ve left off is the sixteen hours of bedside questioning which I’ve often wondered about as excessive. In the context you’ve presented that time could have been used to broker a deal for silence or whatever impeded by the medical issues. Perhaps this would explain all the sealed court documents…okay. I get it. It does muddy the evidence we’ve been examining. But why?

        • olball coach

          Yes – and we could add there has been a ridiculous amount of effort to: eliminate or denigrate all outside sources of information; beginning with Momma T, the FSB, Brendan Mess’s girlfriend, DT’s laptop, TT’s wife, Ibrigrahm Todasauve and his girl friend – and in reverese to nail down an ironclad confession – from the silly carjacking confession, to the 16 hour “interview”, and the boat message.
          Why does it muddy the evidence?
          Overlay Urban Shield on top of all these individual contradictions and “it” – the evidence we have painstakingly dissected and scratched our heads over jumps out at you that what makes most sense – it is a drill gone bad or wrong (and there is a distinction) and the rest has been Keystone cover-up. How do we know that any piece we have looked at (the shootout night – from carjacking on – is a good example) was part of the plan, covered up, or random happenings because LE was never “in” on the trail. Again, using the shootout as the example – we know there was repeated scanner reports of three different locations where “shots fired” yelled into their mic’s and panicked officers were scrambled. Yet, the official narrative only acknowledges one – and even the one they acknowledge is questionable.
          I guess my point, my frustration is – we have spent a long time on this and suddenly many of our findings and conclusions, havent necessarily changed but have certainly taken on a new dimension with this revelation.

        • olball coach

          Good article. I am going to read some of her other work. About 2/3’s down she mentions another piece of evidence that was made to disappear – I didnt know – LE demolished there house out of fear other bombs might go off. And of course they were right because – well – the house did blow up…..

          http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=13135

        • Guest

          Have you found any corroboration that the house was blown up? There was lots of talk about controlled explosions in the days after the “manhunt” but those didn’t happen, and I’ve seen nothing that says anything about the whole house exploding – other than the linked article – and I can’t imagine she’s the only one who knows about it. I’m tempted to drive by and check it out.

        • olball coach

          The above referenced article later the next week printed a “correction”. I just now read it – as I am following there research. Not much in the way of news – but good background information on the brothers, Chechnya and Islam etc.,

          Here is the correction they issued:

          Correction

          May 2, 2013 by TMO

          Last week, TMO reported that the Boston Marathon bombing suspects’ home had been razed, based on radio news. Recent reports state that the home on Norfolk St. in Cambridge has not been razed, but the basement had been cleared of bomb making materials.

          I bet something was translated or interpreted incorrectly.

        • Hoegarten

          Only one person has said he heard the announcement. No one else has. That sounds a bit suspicious

        • olball coach

          what announcement?

        • Hoegarten

          The announcement over the loud speaker saying “This is just a drill” Only one person heard it. No one else has reported hearing this to date.

        • olball coach

          I recall others around the finish line saying something to this effect – I am sure Ali wasnt the only one. I think it was even reported in my local paper in the bay area. I remember brushing it off as inconsequential to what had happened at the time. I am sure it isnt hard to verify either way.

  • Bruce Terrence

    Thank you for this brilliant explication about a classic case of media mind bending. There is, of course, no place in our society for such reasoned, well-researched, common sense investigation but I so admire and respect your efforts to stand up for truth. That’s why I will continue to be a monthly contributor.

  • Pingback: Is Snowden the Criminal? | Bill Totten's Weblog

  • olball coach

    unfreakinbelievable!!!

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/06/07/before-police-could-plan-for-terrorist-attack-real-thing-happened/ufxjb9O0RXyzVZNPFyGkiI/story.html

    From the article published June 8, in the Metro section of the Globe: Police response training planned, but bombs hit first

    The basic plot was this: Half a dozen members of Free America Citizens wanted to gauge police response to a bomb scare. They would plant hoax devices, then stay on the scene to watch and record the bomb squad and detectives as they responded, as a dry run to a larger attack.

    The participating detectives, however, would not have known they were being watched. They would only be told that they were responding to an urgent terrorist threat. The goal of the training was for them to figure out the motives of Free America Citizens as they investigated the case, the official said.

    The planned exercise has eerie similarities to the police investigation that led to the capture of the alleged Boston Marathon bombers, Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, whose images were caught on video cameras and who were captured after a car chase and shoot-out with police.

    In the training scenario, investigators participating in Urban Shield would have to track down footage of the bombers caught by street surveillance cameras and the phones of “witnesses.”

    They would have to call on intelligence analysts to figure out which terrorist cell might be threatening the city.

    In the scenario, the terrorists would flee police in stolen cars they would dump in cities outside Boston, which would compel detectives from different jurisdictions to cooperate and share intelligence.

    • M

      These people have all lost their minds. There are no credible threats to speak of, that seems abundantly clear. So in order to justify the outrageous expenditures on security and the restrictions on our freedoms, or perhaps merely to give shape to their own insecurity and paranoia, they design and create synthetic threats, at great expense and now loss of life.

  • olball coach

    June 11th – The Daily Paul

    DHS Admits Boston Training Drill Involving Backpack Explosives Planned Months Before Marathon

    http://www.dailypaul.com/288602/dhs-admits-boston-training-drill-involving-backpack-explosives-planned-months-before-marathon

  • olball coach

    So – I googled the headline “DHS Admits blah blah blah…….”

    this goes on for pages and pages, alternative media and bloggers……Not a single news report from a MSM source.
    HuffPo fakes you out and lists it as an article 4-5 pages in – but when you click on it – it is actually NSA and Benghazi.

    DHS Admits Boston Training Drill Involving Backpack Explosives …
    http://www.storyleak.com/dhs-boston-training-drill-backpack-explosi...
    by Anthony Gucciardi – in 432 Google+ circlesJun 10, 2013 – DHS Admits Boston Training Drill Involving Backpack Explosives Planned Months Before Marathon. Anthony Gucciardi. by Anthony Gucciardi

    DHS Admits Boston Training Drill Involving Backpack Explosives …
    http://www.dailypaul.com › Forums › Current Events‎

    Jun 11, 2013 – DHS Admits Boston Training Drill Involving Backpack Explosives Planned Months Before Marathon. Submitted by ralph hornsby on Tue, …
    DHS Admits Boston Training Drill Involving Backpack Explosives …
    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread952954/pg1

    Jun 11, 2013 – 17 posts – 8 authorsAccording to the DHS documents acquired by the Boston Globe, the agents were planning on conducting training exercises centered around a …
    DHS Admits Boston Bombing Drill Involving Backpack Explosives …

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF52M41_cX0
    Jun 12, 2013 – Uploaded by RevolutionNewzDHS Admits Boston Bombing Drill Involving Backpack Explosives Planned Months Before Marathon … to …

    DHS Admits Boston Training Drill Involving Backpack Explosives …
    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=73073

    DHS Admits Boston Training Drill Involving Backpack Explosives Planned Months Before Marathon
    By wmw_admin on June 12, 2013 …

    DHS Admits Backpack Explosive Drill Planned Before Marathon
    http://www.activistpost.com/2013/06/dhs-admits-backpack-explosive-drill.html

    http://www.activistpost.com/2013/06/dhs-admits-backpack-explosive-drill.html

    Jun 12, 2013 – DHS Admits Backpack Explosive Drill Planned Before Marathon … Storyleak article: http://www.storyleak.com/dhs-boston-training-drill-backpack-explosives/ … This is the same kind of fishy as the 9/11 drill involving planes flying into buildings that …… Holey Toledo – Two Dangerous Sinkholes in One Month.

    Police response training planned, but bombs hit … – The Boston Globe
    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/06/07/before…/story.html

    Jun 8, 2013 – … people around Boston would leave backpacks filled with explosives at Faneuil … But two months before the training exercise was to take place, the city was … The chaos of the Boston Marathon bombings disrupted plans for the exercise, … The training, funded by a $200,000 Homeland Security grant, will …
    DHS Admits Boston Training Drill Involving Backpack Explosives …
    http://www.crisisforums.org/…/dhs-admits-boston-training-drill-involving-bac...

    The Department of Homeland Security has gone public with an admission that an exercise was planned months before the Boston.
    DHS Admits Boston Training Drill Involving Backpack Explosives …
    http://www.themediaspeaks.com/…/dhs-admits-boston-training-drill-involving-...

    Jun 11, 2013 – Tag Archives: DHS Admits Boston Training Drill Involving Backpack Explosives Planned Months Before Marathon. DHS Admits to Boston Drill …
    DHS Admits Boston Training Drill Involving Backpack Explosives …
    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?noframes;read=279341

    Jun 10, 2013 – DHS Admits Boston Training Drill Involving Backpack Explosives Planned Months Before Marathon [VIDEO]. Posted By: NaturalWisdom

  • olball coach
  • olball coach

    Todays NYT’s CYA piece for the FBI is real smoothe, nice and tidy, and what a load of crock. DT must be planning to have an accident soon.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/02/us/fbi-said-to-conclude-it-could-not-have-averted-boston-attack.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0

    1. “The officials have also determined that had the agents known that Mr. Tsarnaev had traveled to Russia for months in 2012, they probably would not have investigated him again because there was no new evidence that he had become radicalized.” This should have read – Since he was a CIA gopher, hired as a favor for Uncle Ruslan, we never would bother with him anyway.

    2. “The F.B.I. went back to the Russian intelligence service to request more information on Mr. Tsarnaev but was not sent anything, according to bureau officials. The F.B.I. made another request in 2011, but the Russians once again did not send any information.” And besides those Ed Snowden lovin, Russian FSB guys never told us how bad he really was.

    3. ” Mr. Tsarnaev did not show up again on the F.B.I.’s radar until four days after the bombings, when his body was identified at a Boston-area hospital after the shootout. Several hours later, the F.B.I. discovered in its files that it had investigated him in 2011.” Ah well not exactly, the brothers mother and father confirmed the FBI spoke with him on Wednesday, presumably to ask him to take the fall for this screw-up – to which he replied – “That’s your problem.” This statement by the mother was made a week before the FBI admitted they had in fact a file and a history with TT.

    4. “It is unclear whether the F.B.I. was informed by the Department of Homeland Security in 2012 that Mr. Tsarnaev had returned from his trip to Russia.” Of course it is not our fault. DHS never told us he was back. But wait we didnt know he left either – the CIA never told us he left.

    5. “it’s fair to say that had these adjustments been in existence before the attacks, the outcome would likely not have been any different.” Oh well it would have happened anyway – get use to it, cuz more are a coming.
    This is more of the same. John Q. will read this between sips of coffee and move on to the sports page to learn the fate of A-Rod and never think of this again. He is guilty, they fixed the communication issues and now we can all sleep better at night.

    • Hoegarten

      So, your final conclusion is that this was just a bomb drill screwup? Do you think that they were the couriers of the live bombs? DT’s book bad doesn’t look like it was holding anything that could be construed as a bomb. It looked way too light. Also, how can no one have a single picture of Tamerlan alone at the finish line. Wouldn’t that be where most of the spectators cameras would be pointing towards? Or were they just participating in watching/facilitating that the plans went thru (spotters if you will). Why the decision to blame them, and then go with this whole Muslim Chechnya thing? How was Tamerlan able to fly here and there, and be on all of these watchlists if he was simply a spotter for the drill? What happened with the shootouts? Did their handlers say “Meet us at 81 Dexter, we’ll stage a cute little arrest and we’ll send you to Daegestan?” Then they committed the highjacking, and then told the guys to sit in the highjacked (police model) SUV? Then the handlers and some assistants stole another SUV and were aiding and abetting DT and TT escape? Why did DT and TT decide to throw the pressure cookers at the police? Did the handlers pack them in the highjacked SUV? Where did the handlers store the pressure cookers that were in the highjacked SUV initially, if DT and TT drove over in the Honda Civic? What’s up with the three different Tamerlan’s being arrested? Do you think the real Tamerlan is in Daegestan now? Do you still have doubts of the real DT being in the court room that day? The letter from their family friend Tatiana from DT and TT’s mother said that media reports and the more bizarre behavior were made up.

      • olball coach

        Stop it, you are writing my book. Just kidding.

        I started this just simply collecting information and trying to figure why two relatively well adjusted kids would pull off such an act of depravity. That was it. I swatted down every conspiracy theory. I walked back my mistakes. And I have earnestly researched.

        But the longer I have slogged through the thousands of photos, videos, witness accounts, articles, blogs and help from contributors on this site – at every turn the evidence screamed one thing while the official narrative downplayed and said another, and then something else.

        Again, my frustration at this point, is simply I/we have sifted through and analyzed a ton of data and the data “raises” the questions you are asking by contradicting the official narrative at many key points of the drama. The likely overlay of “scripted component(s)” to this series of incidents makes conjecture and opinion making almost futile. We simply dont know what was scripted, what was random or real. We, the interested public looking in are much like the participants in the Urban Shield drills, as detailed by DHS, they don’t even know what is scripted and what is real and neither do we. I suspect this confusion is built in to protect and obscure. There is enough “wiggle” room to slide out of almost any box or contradiction. The last couple of weeks, as this realization was dawning on me – I stepped up efforts to find one solid piece of evidence, one interview, one vid or photo that locks them in and exposes without a doubt – and I think maybe the timeline leading to the bombs going off is the key.

        For what my opinion is worth – to answer your questions:

        1. bomb drill gone wrong, or gone bad…(their is a distinction). Gone wrong is incompetence. Gone bad is the drill was infiltrated and hijacked. (my opinion is CIA vs FBI)

        2. I dont think they had the live ones. They wouldnt have fiddled with their phones so much.

        3. I have read several reports of LE confiscating cameras and deleting piks.

        4. Not spotters, to high up the chain. Gophers.

        5. Key event was the walk back of the first arrest and arraignment on Wed. They were plan B.

        6. Key event was Momma T’s outburts. I think this caught them by surprise. We wouldnt be having this conversation without her. The Chechnya narrative followed from that because there was real evidence TT was running real errands for Uncle Ruslan.

        7. Thats why he moved about unrestricted.

        8. On the shoot out(s) – I think the CIA was bringing them in – and it was sabotaged – information leaked to local LE’s who had know idea what was going on. There was no real carjacking. I have detailed the scanner reports on the specifics of the shootouts themselves.

        9. I dont know what to believe as to their true where abouts. DT’s disfigured face in court may be a clue he is dead or out of the country.

        10. the deliberate demonization by the MSM through anonymous leaks within LE – of the brothers, the family, Islam, Chechnya, Russia, friends, etc, etc., was a clue to me that they had to poison the well so to speak, because the actual evidence to prosecute is problematic.

        Again, the evidence we have compiled here and dissected a number of ways and times only point out the obfuscations, contradictions and fabrications. The smoking gun is the Boston Globe revelation that Urban Shield was planned around the BM, albeit two months later. But, the fact that the series of incidences around the Boston Marathon bombing and the search, chase and capture of the suspects – and the official narratives repeated in the MSM – follows the Urban Shield play book in ways to numerous to be just coincidence. The evidence of coincidences strongly points to the drill being run that day and something went wrong.
        My opinion is just that mine – and it is by far not the last word and I am sure I have overlooked and overstated – and I am willing to be corrected. But on the whole – I am confident I am on the right track.

        • Hoegarten

          Thanks for the reply. I know you don’t have all the answers, but I was wondering what your theories are on these new questions.
          1. If the brothers were not couriers of the live bombs, or spotters, in what way were they participating in this drill. Did they know about the CIA infiltration? Did some other hapless courier end up carrying and placing the live bombs? What was DT doing with that GPS device?
          2. DT’s tweet led me to believe that he thought all the injuries were fake. Was he standing back thinking “Wow, this looks so real! This even smells real!”

          3. If there was no carjacking, what led the police to the SUV at 81 Dexter? Was the dispatcher fed a made up story by the higher ups in the BPD to some clueless police officers? How did they locate the brothers without the cell phone in the car?
          4. Who were the other people present at the two additional shootouts?
          5. Was the Saudi kid involved in this operation in some way.
          6. There is evidence that it was DT in the courtroom. The swollen left side of his face is consistent with the injuries described in Ivestia- bullet through right side of neck, out the left side of his cheek, severing it, his jaw was also broken into many pieces. Still think it may have been a decoy in there?

        • olball coach

          My best guess:
          1. the brothers were part of several two man teams who were to drop packages (fireworks power cans) to test the sniffing dogs – this was all filmed and photographed – immediately following the bomb blasts the news reported at 3 and possible 4 bombs found along that stretch of the marathon – its on scanner, it was reported on MSM. There was reports of one being detonated. That evening after the FBI tookover – all reported undetonated or detonated bombs found earlier were “mistaken.”
          I am guessing the GPS was used to locate where to drop the bombs.
          2. Dont know
          3. the dispatcher reported getting pings back from the stolen car located at 81 Dexter. The fewer people in the charade the better. He was given the cars lo-jack ping number by (?) and ran the search and earnestly reported.
          4. I am guessing the handlers assigned to bring them in. The scanners reported three seperate shootings – it was the first one at Dexter and Laurel we hear the brothers shouting “we didnt do it, chill, chill – etc., but it was the second one were they are video’d by that resident at 256 Mt Auburn getting arrested – remember the “white hat.”
          5. Saudi kid?
          6. IMO he looked out of sorts, it may have been the drugs. His friends describe he had a much thicker Russian accent than they remember. Again, drugs or the wounds to his jaw. And know one got a good enough look at his sisters to say whether they were really his family? I am leaning not him – only because so much of the early trial mumbo jumbo has been done in secret and the FBI is continuing to stiff investigators, and the Congressional committees assigned to look into this.

        • M

          It was him. It was his real sisters and they brought his nephew to court as well. His mother continues to speak out. She reports that she is allowed to speak with DT by phone on a monthly basis and she is in regular contact with the defense lawyers. She also communicates with supporters and friends of DT. They have posted family photographs, photos snuck at the courthouse, and convincing details of his injuries, which go beyond his face, which sustained considerable damage – he is still deaf in one ear and the nerve damage also causes one eye to droop and he is unable to control the muscles in one side of his mouth. One hand and forearm were also badly damaged by several bullets, the other arm caught a couple as well, and so did at least one of his legs. So he has been in pretty bad shape ever since April 19.

        • olball coach

          Are you getting info on his condition from the Russian paper via his mother? Interesting read from their perspective.
          Whether it is him or not, I am not sure it matters. Once they regained control of the situation everything LE has done since, follows a self serving logic. Anything that contradicts or detracts from the official narrative is ignored, denied, or double talked into confusion. The only information getting out including leaks serve the narrative. There must be some value to having DT parade through court – high on the latest mind candy. There must be some “show” value.
          Honestly, after spending 2 months analyzing thousands of articles, piks, ie., tons of data – swatting away conspiracy theories and objectively piecing together what happened – I was wiped out by the DHS admission of the planning for a similar event (Urban Shield). At this point I am so skeptical of anything reported by MSM – it wouldnt surprise me either way – because they can spin it any way they want and we wouldnt know the difference.

  • olball coach

    And the hits just keep on coming. So they wont release the autopsy report because of an ongoing investigation. But they reject doing and investigation…Uh?
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/01/florida-ibragim-todashev-shooting

  • GabrlaMA

    In searching for answers for the Tsarnaev ‘s case, understand
    that Boston is deeply invested with the Department of Homeland Security. In 2008, DHS joined with Northeastern University, NEU, and the University of Rhode Island to operate the Center of Excellence for Explosives Detection, Mitigation, and Response. The center is also known as ALERT, Awareness
    and Location of Explosives Related Threats. It is responsible for conducting research to evaluate risk, costs, and consequences of terrorism. One primary focus is to detect leave-behind improvised explosive devices. Each University receives 2 million a year and its federal funding is up for renewal this year. Boston has held DHS funded Urban Shield training exercises on May 20-22, 2011, and November 3, 2012. Boston has not yet admitted to Urban Shield April 15, 2013. Urban Shield is described as a multi-layered training exercise to enhance the skills and abilities of regional first responders due to high-scale emergencies. 2012 training exercises included eight hospitals throughout Boston for simulation of Hazmat decontaminations, management of simulated victims, and activation of a Medical Intelligence Center. Northeastern University influence is clear in the marathon explosion case, and NEU criminology department has been at the front. NEU Criminology Professor, Alan J. Fox, sat in the Danny interview. In the 2013 Urban shield, NEU students and Boston Police Academy were hired to play terrorists and witnesses. Participant Krystara Brassard, an NEU criminology major, and parents Karen and Ron Brassard continue to play witness. The family first stated injury of Krystara with peppered shrapnel, Ron with baseball sized leg mutilation, all with multiple surgeries-and Karen has had three. Boston officials show themselves highly protective, preserving of their economic interests with DHS, and Karen Brassard is desperately injected into the arraignment. Role playing has crossed with reality, and she falsifies injury implicating Dzhorkhar Tsarvnaev against USA. At the same time hostile, MIT Police Chief DiFava seethes declarations for the death penalty. Information will continue sealed inside Boston and its blind arrogance to pass off this training exercise as a real terrorist explosion. I offer a hint to Boston’s economic interests and their fear of exposure. Demands for facts and government officials’ law abidance will need to come externally to break through Boston’s shield.

    RT: Brassards at :03
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z99_gWwNnSM&list=PLLP-b3u2g9uPTxvXyj0eLIQYrX6YYwr4k

  • olball coach

    I have not resorted to drawing comparisons to OK City, 9/11, 7/7 and now TWA 800, and the oft sited Fox news stat about something like 11/17 terrorist arrests since 9/11 have been FBI stings. Its not appropriate – each must stand on their own. Having said that, I am interested in knowing if anyone can recall a previous “terrorist attack” that has been shrouded in this much legal fog.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/boston-bombing-court-files-cloaked-in-secrecy-94413.html

    I missed this earlier piece – dug in as I was on details. This article has an edge I havent seen in other fairly MSM sites and certainly leaves the reader wondering what the heck is going on. Why the secrets?
    I am not going to pretend I have some preconceived ideas, but I am going to try to honestly look at the behavior of LE and the courts going forward and ask questions.

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  • Code Name Raven

    I just have this gut feeling that tells me something is very “off” about this case. When he pled not guilty & I heard the uncles ex father-in-law was C!A…with all their history of mk.ultra/ PSYOPS to MindWar , I found something that you should look at in regard to the place where Collier was shot .
    http://everything2.com/title/The+CIA+Meets+MIT
    Also http://www.cia-on-campus.org/witanek.html
    And considering Dzhokhars professor is rumored to be an ‘asset’ too. That is just a lot of agents in the mix! Its not like its that far fetched considering theres been so much evidence of frame-ups in the past …Oswald, Ruby, McVeigh, Kaczynski, Holmes just to name a few. They all were connected to C!A / FB! too. In hindsight, there is a distinct pattern of similarities that can’t easily be dismissed.
    But this video would blow this case wide open if it were to be authenticated,

  • fromaway46

    Let’s see if I understand you here. You’re saying everything about the Collier case smells, but yet you believe the guy is really dead? is that right?

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  • Missie Baker

    The Time Mag cover photo taken at 2nd explosion site of the BPD toting away the crying small boy with the head wound raised the question, “what parent would let a child be taken away?” (and there’s his stroller abandoned in the middle of several photos and Robert’s video.) Apparently, an injured father, who was ID’d by an on-site physician as having lost a foot. Physician’s name is Dr. Corwin. Here is his account. http://www.polyprep.org/mobile/news/667309
    I’ve seen no media reports on a father who had a (presumably) traumatic foot amputation (surely there could be no mistake about something like this) but there was a photo captured of the father, with singed hair, on the West corner of the Forum patio, closest to the Atlantic Fish. (will post link) Why examine this? Because at Site 2, victims, their location, injuries reported sustained and presumed IED location at East side of the tree in front of Forum seems off, instead pointing to Forum’s patio/entry sidewalk as actual IED site. Think Medianote 6 is correct.

    • Baby Blake

      I know the scene you mean. In one of the photos the man looks like he may of had his foot blown clean off. A few photos at this link: http://joanneatom.imgur.com/all/

      • Missie Baker

        That’s the small boy. (I found just one photo on that link.) I’ve only seen the father of this child from the back and his right side, light hair and scruff. (His location would suggest his injury to be on the left–was it?) I’ve been wondering why his involvement has not been publicized like the others. (No crowdfunding site?) The photographer, Bill Hoenk tells his story here http://bhoenk.photobiz.com/store/?load/blog_detail/page/60246/item/766/photographer-bill-hoenk-shares-his-experiences-and-thoughts-about-the-boston-marathon-bombings
        Interesting Mr. Hoenk too has a connection, having worked as a waiter at the Forum for a few months a year ago and stays in touch. (what are the odds?) Post explosion, he jumped the barrier and ran back toward the Forum. “I looked all around the street and noticed there was no one else with a camera taking pictures, which I remember surprised me for a moment because there were hundreds just before the explosions, then I looked back at the blast scene because there were more people helping victims,” Took 51 photos in 5 minutes, and he’s a professional.
        Amazing when you consider the dearth of photos of the brothers on the Internet and the ongoing controversy that there are no discernible images of TT by Jeff Bauman’s side.

        • olball coach

          Hey – thought you should know – “nothing” is showing up on the links you have provided – they are blank. I cannot find that guy at site 2 either – so I am moving to site 1 – I will let you know.

        • Missie Baker

          Try billhoenkphotography.com and click on his blog. Boston story is fourth from top.

        • Missie Baker

          Think you may have sent me this photo?

        • Missie Baker

          You can just make out the man–Dad X?–on the ground, in blue, his body bisected by the tree in this photo from Dr. Cowin’s spouse. I haven’t checked this against the Robert’s post-explosion video, but the lighting here seems brighter and crisper than both the video and the composite photo of DT in front of the Forum, shot around the same 10-15 minutes.

        • olball coach

          thats right by Heather Abbot. Hmm.

        • Missie Baker

          Links gremlin? Billhoenkphotography.com and look for the Blog in the header. Boston story fourth in line. The physician John Cowin’s account can be found on the one fund site or at the Orlando sentinel website Sunday August 18 Lake County Orthpedic Surgeon rushed to help victims.

        • olball coach

          I’ve read the blog. Its the link to the piks – I am trying to id the dad – and btw: that’s a puzzler – we looked for this lad before and all I could come up with was an unidentified 3 year old – no data – no story – nothing. At first I had mistaken the 3 yr old for a smallish 5 yr old in a wheel chair – but the three year old also has has plenty of pictures. just no corroborating story of his dad and vice y vesa.

        • Missie Baker

          http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-04-17/news/os-lake-surgeon-boston-marathon-bombings-20130417_1_boston-marathon-john-cowin-boston-university-graduate-student
          Dr. Cowin tells the story of the Injured Dad and his little boy, but I (again) find it confusing because there are just too many victims in a very small space at the foot of the knee wall (w/planter) separating AFish from Forum…shorts-clad Denise Richard, her son and injured daughter, aaron hern and david ypes, and now Dad X and his 3 yr old and stroller. (If you go back to blurry post-explosion photo, taken from way above by Lord & Taylor CCTV, where everyone but the victims have cleared out, you can see Papa Richard moving fence away, and son Henry bent over the small group (4 other adults?) remaining with the victims on the sidewalk and West of the tree. It doesn’t seem possible. (and the stroller is just visible as a dash of red at the top right corner.

        • Missie Baker

          You have to enlarge this photo to see that stroller, it’s just a small splash of color here. And I’ve thought of one more obvious bit, which is that construction is a very dangerous work environment. Shop and site accidents can lead to limb loss because of the electric tools used and losing control of heavy materials can crush body parts, for example of a group of workers.

        • Baby Blake

          I apologise. Still getting to grips with how to use imgur I don’t know how to post thumbs here either. I have set the link to public: http://joanneatom.imgur.com/all/

          Just a small note on the Lord and Taylor footage. Do you mean the stuff that came from the camera in the pic you were discussing below? If so, it did not come from the Lord and Taylor camera at all – check the angle of the shot in relation to the buildings. Sorry if this has been covered guys.

        • Missie Baker

          I agree. Have you found a source for this image? I can’t see a security camera on FRB or the MO rooms above it in likely location, but if a fixed camera, it would have provided video footage of DT placing his “knapsack” on the ground in front of Forum. (Instead the criminal complaint cites “photo taken from across the street” for documentation.) I wonder if the source of this photo might have taken & released/posted others?

        • Baby Blake

          It’s a confusing one. People assumed they came from L and T because of the initial statements. They said they were able to identify DT dropping his bag from the L and T camera – some of the video footage we’ve never seen. They later spoke of ‘images from across the street’. The myth was born – they’ve never made any attempt to rectify it! Now the complaint notes the forum camera as the bag drop footage (again we’ve yet to see it) yet makes no reference to the original comments that the L and T camera showed the same. Check the Bank of America right across the street. There are cameras there that account for a lot of the shots. Evidently they did NOT show DT dropping the bag. On the source for your image – I recall it reading an account on it – the person who took it said they only took very few because the scene was so horrific. I’ll try and track it although it may take a while as I read it ages ago.

        • Missie Baker

          Thanks, that is a lot more source information than I’ve unearthed. (Would be curious to know the owner of the image, haven’t checked Getty for it.) I’m working on identifying the victims and the bystanders in this same photo. I thought the blonde woman might be Brighid Walls, but she’d be minus her family unless she hung back after they headed to Starbucks. I’m clueless about the older gentleman in dark blue next to the blonde, Public Servant Watch posited he is FBI/LE. (No reason at present to believe otherwise.) Believe I’ve ID’d everyone else with exception of Dad X and 3YO son (in a completely intact stroller, BTW) and the brown shirted man on the ground next to Paul Norden. Mr. Brown shirt victim is later seen stretched out next to Ms Zhou in those B/W photos in front of Forum taken by the female photographer (her name escapes me.) I’m assuming the dark shirt man on the front part of sidewalk, sitting next to the older woman in green, is JP. This would appear to leave two adult victims unnamed. I’m also disputing the famous DT sidewalk photo–I do not believe the woman in shorts is Ms. Richard. I actually believe Ms. Richard is the dark-haired woman in black quilted vest that Henry Richard has draped his arm over…his mom. If so, where is Ms. Richard in the famous DT sidewalk photo–inside the Forum, perhaps? I pose this question, because once again, here’s yet another “witness” claiming the IED were planted in trash cans. (this is the 4th or 5th account, I should collect these) Of course, an explosion is too quick for the human eye to see in detail, but if this runner–no number– was at the 26 MMM, he was a few hundred feet West of the Forum for first blast and perhaps a credible witness. http://abcnews.go.com/US/boston-marathon-explosion-witnesses-report-smoke-trampling-war/story?id=18961772 (at 02:45 for his version) OLLCoach earlier was following a theory there was something large and dark at the base of the tree. However, none of these possibilities make any sense compared to Ms. Sdoia’s accounts of the bag expanding and the “flash” at her feet.

        • Baby Blake

          Ok, the photographers name was Sharona Dayan. There is a name credit with one of her photos at this link. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/18/reports-investigators-circulate-photos-of-2-men-at-boston-marathon-bombings/

          I can’t find her story again, but I know she was a dentist visiting a friend with an apartment just to the right of FRP, one floor above ground level. They cut quite a bit out of the pic you’ve been looking at. Here it is in it’s original form. http://i.imgur.com/gHWnyau.png
          It probably wont help much in terms of ID’ing people because it is so small, but at least we have the provenance! I’ll see if I have anything on your old man. I’ve been following the thread so know where your at re the trash can theories/ dark thing near base of tree etc. It does seem that the explosion occurred further from Sdoia than she noted – it’s a mystery all right! I was wondering if she may of embellished a little, not that she needed to – but it’s just something humans do. I cant think of an adequet example, but it’s slightly comparable to all the runners who ‘only just crossed the line when the first bomb went off and were lucky to escape injury’ when we find they actually crossed 5 mins before and were in no real danger at all! It’s just something people to in a crisis – they elaborate. Maybe Sdoia did the same by noting it was right at her feet then ‘poof poof flash’ etc?

        • Missie Baker

          Appreciate receiving Sharona Dayan’s name; I’d like to track her across the web just for confirmation she exists, etc.

        • olball coach

          Dad X is up against the Atlantic Fish Co building on his knees facing the building – looks like his arm is on the table bracing himself to get up (Dayan pik mentioned below) Bet he was blown back and down – in shock crawled to the table not knowing he was severely injured.
          Cant find a three year old listed on any victims lists posted by MSM – WPost, Globe, or NYT. All of the victims stories I have read so far are backed up by background and most have followups – nothing I can find on a guy with a mangled foot and his 3 year old son.
          Ms Richard ?

        • olball coach

          Scratch comment regarding Dad X. Duh.
          Ms. Richard? How can she be standing there if she suffered a serious head wound, partial vision loss. In another picture that women is on the ground in the middle of that pack of people attending to or comforting the kids on the ground. You sure.
          I admit I felt the Ms Richard on the barricade seemed a bit to young – but if that’s not her, well then you have a bonafide question there. Where is she?

        • Missie Baker

          If Dr. Cowin isn’t purposely falsifying his account of the event, in those articles he said Ms. Richard was talking and coherent and didn’t want to get into the ambulance. Previously I’d thought she was severely injured, possibly near death. Also, black quilted vest woman appears to be right height compared to Papa Richard, has masses of dark hair, is near her two children on the ground, and Henry Richard is physically comfortable around her. Now as to where she was when the family group was photographed? Bathroom break inside the Forum? Or maybe that photo was a composite. I really wish I knew the answer.

        • olball coach

          Here’s something to blow your mind.
          Who is that standing against the red brick below the 755 sign (right column)? More importantly what does that pose and “look” look exactly like?
          Mr Richard – at the barricade looking to his left….Your composite pik theory just might have legs.

          I maintain, however, it would have been easier to photo them all there before the blast and “shop” DT in – rather than composite the scene. But there is some evidence to your suggestion.

        • olball coach

          Ms. Richards? Her injury is to the head or specifically her eye – meaning she was looking in the direction of the explosion.

        • olball coach

          Okay – I think you got another one. I went back and read several of their recent comments and noticed in the comments section of one that someone suggested Ms. Richard is the women in the far left of this familiar, uncropped photo. A closer look reveals she is wearing a brown hat and it appears her black gloves are on Henry’s shoulders. I think that nails it. This means then public servant was right – the women running down the middle of Bolyston – while DT is turning the corner on Exeter is the same women standing in front of that tree next to Jane.

        • Missie Baker

          I partially agree here, because maybe the three were lined up, instead of huddled, to get over the barrier with little Jane sandwiched between youngest son and Mom? (the most prominent injury papa Richard sustained appears to be on his left leg, where the pant leg is the most shredded.) I’m still working out how this all could have happened, relative to the IED/s position.

        • olball coach

          I know you are struggling with the placement of the IED put given the pattern of the debris – what difference does it make? It was a 3/4 spray anyway and whether it was 2 feet this way or 2 feet that way – well? IDK – ?

        • Missie Baker

          In answer, I can only ask: If you were J. Clowery, how would you vault 4′ high barrier fencing, with people pressing against you, such that you would be using two hands, but keeping your back and legs to the sidewalk? And assume you are going over at standstill? You can’t make a running leap and do one handed hip swing to carry over your legs. (And as you perform this feat, your legs and torso must be airborne a sufficient length of time that an exploding IED doesn’t touch you–burns your skin, a few bits of shrapnel… I just don’t know) (Because if you read reports about soldiers encounters with IED–and there are dxxn few, considering the numbers of young men coming back, elevating yourself say four feet above an IED would still lead to hand/arm loss, facial injuries, etc. I’m thinking there’s something off about his account.)

        • Missie Baker

          You know, I don’t believe it is papa Richard because he is all alone, but there is a definite resemblance which could be useful. Was that what you meant by your comment? I believe so.

        • olball coach

          Yes – to answer your question.
          Its evidence of composite piks – when I blow that up it gets real funky all around his neck. Again, I remember I am not 100% on board the composite pik theory – but this could be evidence.

        • olball coach

          what was I thinking – ice cream time in Starbucks? Still it is a weird cowinky dink – to have him standing there in a similar pose.

        • Missie Baker

          Here goes:

          Why examine the victim locations post explosion and their reported injuries at Site 2? Every victim interviewed at Site 2 could state how “far away” they were from theblast, but only Ms. Sdoia could give an account of the IED. (Sort of like Jeff Bauman at Site One.)
          However, I believe their “how far” numbers could be contradictory. I also believe they were likely told where they were…in the surge of the crowd and the desire to get into the street, it’s doubtful anyone saw the source, “trash can” as initially reported or not. And memory loss/confusion is not uncommon after a traumatic experience, physical or mental. This was both. So, correct/revise as you see fit.
          Group One: All
          suffered reported left side injuries or amputations

          Red circle: Two unknowns who were not injured, Man stayed at site long after first responders appeared. Speculated he is LE/FBI.

          Orange Circle: Denise and Henry Richard, standing by barricade

          Orange Arrow: Papa Richard

          Green Arrows (2): Top of his head is barely visible, this is unknown father who suffered a field foot amputation, per Dr. Cowin. His 3 YO son is in the undamaged red/black stroller and suffered a head laceration, again on
          the left side.

          Purple Circle: Adam Davis and Adrienne Haslett-Davis “fell in a knot” and crawled into the Forum

          Yellow Circle: This is more difficult, but Jane and Martin are here, as is David Ypes and Aaron Hern. Aaron recounted how he was right next to Martin. I believe Aaron and David are north of the two
          little Richard children. Jane suffered
          severe burns to the back of her clothing as well as amputation.

          Not visible: Heather
          Abbot was blown into the Forum restaurant door (the Bar) from its patio. Jarrod Clowery suffered major burns to back of his thighs and higher, and wrists. He was going over the barrier and is the likely source of the barrier that ended
          up on the opposite side of street—he moved it. Also missing is Jacqui Webb, who suffered severe leg wounds as she was lifted over the barrier by the brothers. Off screen is Darrel Folkert, in bright blue top, who was shielded by
          the green mailbox, along with Steve Bryne and Bim Costello.

        • Missie Baker

          Olball Coach: Now, this starts the “right side” reported injuries, and group of unidentified.
          Group 2: Right side injuries reported:
          Red Circle: The two brothers, JP and Paul. This seems to square with their account they were inside the barrier assisting Ms. Webb over into the street. She reported a large number of shrapnel injuries to her legs.
          One might think this is where the division between victims occurs, if there was a single IED.

        • Missie Baker

          This would be Group Three: Right side injuries.
          Green Circle: Ms. Sdoia and Mr. Fucarile, although his injures to both legs were so severe he came close to losing both. Terribly sad, it appears he suffered a field amputation of portion of right left. He could have been very close to a device.
          Orange Circle: Darrel Folkert, protected by green mail box.
          Red Circle: Steve Byrne? Again to the right of the mailbox, supposedly blown several yards into street. (I believe he was too far away.)
          Unresolved is how the barrier fence was bent in half. It could have been the force of their bodies, as the barrier sections were connected by white zip ties which might have melted in the fire/heat?

        • Missie Baker

          In sequence, here’s the final analysis.
          Group Four: Varied injuries–on the front.
          Orange circle: Ms. Lu and Ms. Zhou, only one is visible. Ms. Zhou suffered a deep wound to her torso–she said her belly. Ms. Lu was reported to have vomited by Dr. Cowin, perhaps from internal injuries. Also an undocumented account she was struck in the front by large piece of shrapnel. Details are vague. (can’t recall where I read that last account)
          Red Circle: Unnamed second male victim, dark brown or dark gray top and light slacks. Nick Sorbanelli, a victim across the street in front of L&T, reported seeing a man missing a hand at Site 2. If he was correct, could this be the man? (see second photo below)
          Green Circle: Ollball Coach has offered this could be same rather petite lady in green coat in Bob Leonard photos from further West on Boylston in front of Whiskeys or Back Bay. Unknown if she was injured.
          Based on this, either multiple devices, or fireworks, or device was left on patio at furthermost West corner of black railing of Forum. There is no physical evidence at site post explosion of a metal trash container, and MediaNote 6 has suggested finding the circuit board for the triggering device on the grating beneath the tree was odd/perhaps too convenient (further down the thread.)

        • olball coach

          I just noticed that baby is in that stroller in the above wide angle shot. Dsiquis gives me a great HD pik and you can make out his face against the darker canvas he/she is laying on. Wow.

        • olball coach

          Comparing to an unblurred wide angle – Mr Richard is to the left of the that guy on the ground – he is in shorts and wearing a black top – guy in your second picture is the one on Richard’s right – barely visible. That guy on the ground you have circled is sitting right in front of that stroller – think thats Dad X instead?

        • Missie Baker

          These two men have different haircolor, one is brunet and Dad-X has dark-blond, plus their clothing doesn’t match. I guess not, or correct me.

        • Missie Baker

          I have one more photo to post relative to this mysterious man, an unnamed Site 2 victim. There also appears to be a third figure at the barricade/fencing–we can just see the back of him, outlined in blue. (Red arrow is Dad-X, yellow is the stroller, green are the two Norden brothers, the arrowheads are the three visible Richard family members, turquoise is the Mysterious man.) This may indicate there was yet a third male adult at the victim site/ground zero, but we don’t know their physical positions because we have no accounts from them. If correct, any recreation of the circle of individuals at the site must take them into consideration.

        • olball coach

          Steve Byrne – interesting? I have never quite squared him up. In one account he states he arrived early an hour or so and he was uninjured – but then we see him arriving and walking towards the Forum at roughly the same time as the brothers (In front of Back Bay). IDK, I am may have confused him with someone else.
          In order to bend like it did, the fence would have to have been anchored or stablized at one end – its conceivable there was enough people to push through its resistance – but whew – thats a lot of manpower, again IDK? And what would it have been anchored to hold up under such stress and allow it to bend at roughly the point where it contacts the mail box? Zip ties would have snapped instantly.

        • Missie Baker

          Agree with your observations about Mr. Byrne–he’s a puzzler. I do wonder if because this is hollow metal tubing–steel, probably not aluminum, if it was subject to intense heat, it might have been more malleable? (I also speculate that coming into contact with this metal barrier might have contributed to Mr. Fucarile’s multiple leg injuries.)These temporary barriers aren’t necessarily designed to withstand continuous crowd movement (hence the zip ties,) but to serve as a sturdier deterrent to crowd movement than orange hurricane (plastic) fencing.

        • olball coach

          watching those vids of the police and volunteers pulling those barricades into the street – indicate they were fairly sturdy and heavy – each barricade seem to come apart easily at the zip ties – Heat? Naw, too many bodies between the bomb and the barricade.

        • olball coach

          I went back and reviewed everything I had on Byrne and yes I got him confused with one of the Nordin guys. They are the same size wore over sized white shirts (except Nordin wore a hat). The Nordins, along with Jackie showed up an hour early. We see Byrne and another friend (name escapes me) walking ahead of the T brothers in Leonard piks. The Nordins, Clowery, Fucarile and Byrne were supposed to meet at the Forum. Byrne’s account is fuzzy. He does not explain how he got over the fence and wandered a bit to the left of the site 2 before someone ushered him into the Forum to get treated. He does recall the first explosion going and everyone moving towards the barricade all at once when the second explosion went off. Given his position – I think he moved to his left on the other side of mail box and was struck in the arm and face by shrapnel.

        • Baby Blake

          It’s speculative, but could it’s positioning served as the anchor? http://i.imgur.com/DNesvle.jpg
          The ‘feet’ of the fences were quite broad. In this shot we can see how it was bent down towards the floor as it wrapped around the mail box, which itself was situated on a raised concrete block. A few people using their body weight would of possibly been able to bend it like that if the ‘feet’ caught on the side of the concrete block as they were doing so. That could also offer and explanation for it’s downward motion as it was bent?

        • olball coach

          If that wide base, the “feet” of the barricade had been hooked around the leg of the mail box, that and 4 or 5 fully grown men the size of the Nordin group could have pushed that barricade back.
          btw: amazing photos – these are not on standard google searches – blogs?

        • Baby Blake

          No, not standard google searches. For my sins, I’ve been following the bombings since the very first doubts emerged. For me, photos are essential for discovering what really happened (as long as you can rule out any manipulation). I have hundreds and hundreds – possibly a thousand or so – which took me a very long time to aquire! I have sources for some, but not all. I stumbled on yours and Missy’s discussion a few weeks ago by accident, from reading the Collier article above. I’ve been riveted! There’s a definite case to be answered here of that there can be no doubt, so I gave up reading and began commenting. Many hands make light work, so if there is anything I can do to assist here, I’d be more than willing.

        • olball coach

          Yikes! I shudder considering what those sins might be…..Anyway – Ms Baker will confirm I have been fairly tenacious following this story until my “road to Damascus” event when I realized what the data had been telling me all along was in fact true and that the official narrative has been a sort of Keystone Cops catch up to cover up. This was some sort of staged event or drill that went either bad or wrong (and there is a distinction). Needed some time to stand back take a deep breath. I am almost certain I have every photo available in a public forum. If you would post on the imgur page the stuff you have on site 2 – and let Ms. Baker and I look through it – we both know what we are looking for; timeline – timeline – timeline.

        • Missie Baker

          Speaking of timelines, and our ongoing mission of debunking the whole “blue runner” photo/crim complaint/photoshopped-in head of DT edifice, there is just one more item that has been bothering me. Riddle me this: does a 15YO boy carry a man-bag and set it at his feet? (because what I thought was a sand-bag maybe isn’t) Then, what is that thing?

        • olball coach

          on the parade/runners/event route are there give-aways, merchant hand outs – etc., and or what not? It looks like a real cheapy satchel that would be provided by a merchant or vendor trying to get his/her name out for the purpose of collecting every other vendors giveaway or goodies?
          Just reaching here…..

        • Baby Blake

          I’ll make an album for you. It will probably contain a lot that you’ve already got, but you might find something in there that helps. Better than posting them here and there in the thread anyway. I was reading your stuff on the timelines, and it’s some of the most accurate of seen! I have a timeline problem of my own. In the Bob Leonard pics where TT and DT are making their way down, there is a guy in orange leaning over the fence next to the small woman in green. I haven’t seen him anywhere else between there and the finish line – but he is at the finish line in the crowd (near sweet green cafe)just after the first bomb went off. He must of literally followed the brothers a few steps behind the whole way down, leaving DT at the forum and continuing after TT. But he doesn’t show up in anything.

        • Missie Baker

          Baby Blake, that is an interesting smoldering object in right foreground. It nearly looks like a bag, but is it clothing?

        • Baby Blake

          I know.It’s hard to tell. I think it may be clothing. The smoke seems to be coming from behind the initial material/bag. I think it may be a smaller piece of clothing right behind it.

        • Baby Blake

          Your red circle is Steve Burn. Here he is with the Norden bunch/Bim Costello outside the forum – same clothing. http://i.imgur.com/Uw9eq9t.jpg

          Another: http://i.imgur.com/opeJ9gT.jpg

          Also, I saw you were leaning towards DRichard’s being the lady wearing the hat and gloves in the original DT shot. I think you may be right. I have her from behind with her arms around the boy. http://i.imgur.com/Iz7WNU3.jpg

        • olball coach

          Wow – Thank you these are great.
          Misse Baker is going to love these. Anthing else in this area, maybe downstreet – We’ve been using, sunlight shadow and runners to gauge timing.

        • Missie Baker

          True; it doesn’t take much to excite me…a few random crowd shots and I’m soaring. But seriously, you just confirmed the identify and position of a key victim. Major.

        • olball coach

          BB is batting, what 5 for 5 now – Sheez – I just posted the article BB was referrring to earlier. Where has she been?
          btw – double chuckles on your response

        • Baby Blake

          Reading yours and Missy’s mammoth effort to shed some light on this mess all on your own! You both deserve a medal. I don’t think I’ve seen anything by that tree from this side, but I’ll have a look through for the ‘dark rectangular’ thing.

        • Baby Blake

          None further down, but several similar ones taken outside the forum. I hear you on using the runners to gauge the timing – I did the same. The only forum patio one I have like the ones above gives an indication of ‘their’ timing (not necessarily the true timings we’re all desperate to know) and you’ve probably seen it. TT on his own making his way down through the crowd past 745 Boylston towards the finish line.

          http://i.imgur.com/HFWA4Tx.jpg

          I am always skirting around the outskirts of these pics to see who is in the background.

        • olball coach

          the young lady to the left connects this pik to three you posted today – all taken at roughly the same time – as TT is heading down to the finish line – Hmmm. Timing is everything.
          btw: Orange guy in Leonard shot – sunglasss on bald head? I did see the single pik of an orange jacketed man with sunglasses on his – looks larger than the guy in the Leonard – but that may angle, perspective any number of things – good catch – because he does not look like he is in any hurry to leave. Dont see him in this one above or the earlier ones.

        • Baby Blake

          I cant place him anywhere in between. In one of the Leonard shots you can see his bag by his feet – not the satchel type thing, but that large ruck sack. If you compare it to the one at the finish line, it’s the same bag – and the other thing is he was behind the finish, not in front of it. In the Fatima Tanis video he makes his way down that little cut through towards the blast scene. Did he run?!? Like you said, he really didn’t look like he was ready to move anywhere. Who knows?

        • Baby Blake

          A crowd shot further down (red arrow not my own), looking towards bomb#2.

          http://i.imgur.com/XWwzZMW.jpg

        • Missie Baker

          I have a theory about that backwards white cap underneath the arrow in this photo. If you look at Ms. Dayan’s photo (the one I’ve been using to map the most seriously injured victims Site 2) on the far (east) side of the tall transformer, there is a figure that could be a dead ringer for DT, except OLLCoach had told me figure is wearing white shoes… I believe there is debris (cup from Sbucks or MBrenners) that appears to be a shoe, because the figure’s other foot, pointed West, is indistinct–and looks darker. (He and I disagreed a ways back.) If not DT, then probably this same figure in this photo you’ve posted. (and might also be what led to the “erroneous” story leaked anonymously that DT and TT stuck around to view the “carnage”…) Just a thought.

        • Missie Baker

          That does seem conclusive re: Ms. Richard. And I’ve corrected the post re: Steve Burn. So we’ve placed the Richard family by the Forum, and we have an approximate time for the photo of 1.5 to 2.0 minutes before the explosion, based on earlier posts. Still open-ended is the observation raised by Olball Coach: beneath the tree and behind the Not-DRichard is a dark rectangular shape she seems to have her leg propped against, and the two younger girls’ legs are curiously flat. Since this was a still photograph, would it be fair to expect a somewhat clear image?

        • olball coach

          I posted last night that I think Public Servant was right about “NOT DRichard” – that gal was photographed running south on Bolyston – just as DT was pictured exiting stage right from Exeter. She must have jumped the barricade and ran to the corner. That means she is a witness – someone to ask about the backpack and perhaps what was behind her leaning against that tree that she apparently has her foot perched against.

        • olball coach

          Very neat find here. These pictures connect dots.
          1) I already mentioned – the women to the left is the same women in the shot of TT walking down past 745 Bolyston.
          2) She is also in the “DT” photo or what we had called the Blue Runner photo. She is standing almost exactly in the middle with both arms raised as if to be chearing someone on – The checkered shirt is hard to make out in the Blue Runner photo but the markings on her shirt and the wrist band on her left hand are clearly visible.
          3) There is a guy with sunglasses on who is carrying a young child/girl on his shoulders – she is wearing a pink hat and is right next to Byrnes head in the background. That gentlemen can also be seen in the uncropped version of the Blue Runner photo. In the photo above you can barely make out his colorful shirt/light jacket – a bit red/pink peeks out from where the child is sitting. That is the same guy standing to the far right in the Blue Runner photo. Furthermore, you can actually see him in several earlier pictures (brown bag in front of the mail box) taken from across the street by Dayan as well. The brothers, Jackie and the red hat friend (Clowery?) is also visible on the opposite side of the photos as well.
          4) In the above picture we have id’s DRichard, Henry and David Yepez – the satchel is at his feet in the above picture.
          5) That satchel is also visible in the pictures of that sight earlier in the day (the brown bag at the mail box site) but Yepez is no where near it – he is standing several people back. SO???

        • olball coach

          See red arrows for what I am talking about above.

        • olball coach

          Earliest pik I have of the satchel in place – it does not move for at least an hour – up to bombing.

        • olball coach

          Here’s a better one.

        • olball coach

          Here is the pik I have mentioned regarding the young lady we initially thought was Ms Richard -

        • olball coach

          So what this means is we can patch together a timeline from roughly and hour before the bombing to several minutes afterwards and we have a definitive witness. I mean think what this kid must have thought when the piks started coming out with her standing right there.

        • Baby Blake

          I know. What can we infer from that? She has not come out publicly and described her experience that day as many others have, some for money no doubt. What did she see? A ‘non’ bag drop – if that was me I’d tell the world – so how have they shut her up? Tuffs Lacrosse girls team would be as good a place as any to start, even though I’d imagine those sweaters are quite common among non lacrosse players. Another needle in a giant haystack.

        • olball coach

          further down I have listed there info – for the really big news – go to top of this blog -

        • Baby Blake

          What the hell is going on? Just read the article from the top post. There seem to be three possible things happening here. The timeline is right, and the girl just got her 15 minute claim wrong. Or, it was 15minutes before and all the other timings are wrong, which is difficult to envisage because of the runners/bob leonard/whiskey’s/TT walking toward bomb#1. Still, there’s nothing to say didn’t doctor the timings in some way, possibly to fit in around that pic. Or, it’s not the same picture. The girl said DT was seen in the pic wearing the pack, no mention of it by his feet at all. Another conundrum to add to the many! I bet lacrosse X would know……

        • olball coach

          Of those three young ladies standing in front of the tree and the bag – this is the one who got away uninjured – the other two suffered concussions and shrapnel wounds. They are Tufts University Lacrose players and there hundreds of write ups on them. I can nothing, however that tells us whether they standing there when the bomb went off or whether they had moved – before or after the 1st explosion.
          Timeline Timeline Timeline

        • olball coach
        • olball coach
        • olball coach

          Best accounting of what happened to the Tuft’s University ladies. It appears they moved together more or less in the direction of Crate & Barrel and throught the neighborhoods/

          http://now.tufts.edu/articles/running-resilience

        • Baby Blake

          Ok, I’ve uploaded some of my bomb#2 pictures here: http://joanneatom.imgur.com/all/
          For obvious reasons I have a lot more of bomb#1!
          I’ve left out most of the obvious ones, but I’m sure there’s still many, many in there that you will of seen. I have sources for the vast majority of them, so if you find anything useful it shouldn’t be too much of a problem.

        • olball coach

          Having trouble – it lists 3 albums. when I click on all albums – it shows two of orange man and the ones of Leo. Finally the top caption next to Imgur says the albums are not for public viewing.
          Anyway – I am a clutz on this stuff – so if I goofed let me know.

        • Baby Blake

          Not you, me. I keeps going back to my default settings when I log off. They’re back to public now so you can see them. About to read the article at the top – sounds very interesting to say the least!

        • Missie Baker

          Hi Baby Blake I was trying to open the images per link to your account. There are two albums of Leo and Orange man only. What I missing? Also what is your interest or theory for orange man? Do you suspect he was sent to watch the brothers? I’ve not seen this mentioned anywhere but I know from personal experience that in older cities with severe weather patterns there are extensive service tunnels underground and I’m sure boston would be the same. These can be accessed through hotels most often and may or ma not too into old train or other delivery vehicles access areas. Here we also have the subway running in this area. I’ve been wondering for awhile now if TT didn’t “disappear” because he was directed to a tunnel, passed beneath Boylston and emerged on the north side to drop off his device on Huntington, which I recall was the location of the third controlled detonation that occurred around four pm. Crazy notion maybe.

        • Baby Blake

          Sorry – something wrong with my settings every time I log out. It should be fixed now. I don’t have a theory on orange man as such. I was struck by his close proximity to both sites in the crucial time period. No sooner had Leonard taken that pic, he must of followed both brothers all the way down, yet somehow managed to get himself behind the finish line before the first bomb exploded. And I cant place him anywhere else in between. Someone must of been keeping tabs on them, but I have no idea if it was orange man! Your thoughts on tunnels do sound crazy- but in the absence of any footage it’s a good a theory as most at this point. I have two pics taken 1min and 2 mins before bomb#1 encompassing the whole area from the big screen right to the finish line, and TT is not there. They clearly show the faces of all the victims from bomb#1 in HD – he’s nowhere. I crossed matched with the runners in the pictures to check the timings, so I’m sure about when the shots were took – they are panoramics from the bleachers. Nothing – no TT anywhere.

        • olball coach

          He is wearing a badge – hard to see, but I am sure it’s there – Most of these “plainclothes” guy/gals wandering around with badges have a black and red lanyard around their neck.

        • Baby Blake

          I know from reading the thread that you are all too aware of the up and coming drill/urban shield exercises etc. I joined the party a bit late here, so forgive me if I’m going over old ground. Did you know about the live drills in previous years that were held on marathon days? They were deemed a complete success as the 250,000 people or so present had no idea they were taking part in a live exercise. This year was markedly different – people noticed things, and they noticed them in their droves. The presence was huge, so it would of been pointless trying to hide all of it – plain clothes was one way. Again, if it been covered apologies, if not I’ll dig the info out again for you – the numbers were truly staggering and had no place in your average Boston marathon drill day. Please advise.

        • olball coach

          yep the 2012 drill was specifically about a bombing(s).

        • olball coach

          These are going to keep us busy a while –
          I have indexed mine by chron and second copies by subject. I will be fitting these in and then uploading to flickr – its the one my kids use -

        • olball coach

          Who is the little one in green next to your red circle?

        • Missie Baker

          A crowd shot reveals another woman in a green coat on the sidewalk in front of Forum’s door prior to explosion–older, and she looks taller than this woman. (We agree not Jane because of the little gir’s injuries, and she’d be attended to by her parents, not off chatting to another victim.)

        • Baby Blake

          Are you sure the person in the green coat is not Jane? I know the situation looks weird (looks like she’s chatting with no parents near) but that’s exactly where Bill retrieved her from when he picked her up, in this pic: http://i.imgur.com/1oMK9TH.jpg I also have an awful photo of him carrying her from there which really shows that true state of her injuries. I will post a link to it if you want to see it, but I have to warn you it is very graphic. Certainly brings home the reality of the situation for the family at any rate. Again, I think the little green one is her – her dad and brother were all over the place with the mom hurt and Martin too. If we look at it from the perspective that the shots were taken within seconds of one another, it’s not all that odd that when this one was took she was on her own, whilst 3-5 secs later they ran to her and picked her up. Will post link to photo if you wish.

        • olball coach

          Crickey! We havent seen this one! Source? and my goodness are there more….Yes, and that is her – distinctive burnt hair and thats how Mr. Richard described it – picking her up and carrying into the street and collasping. I would be interested in the link to the photo – no need to post it here – But if we can gleen anything more from background analysis that would be great.

        • Baby Blake

          It came with no source, but judging by the angle of it I think it’s probably one of the Dayan shots.

        • olball coach

          The red unknowns we id’d way back in our 200 page opus – doctor and his wife – she was interviewed on tv may have been brits or kiwis cannot remember exactly – I just remember her account was stirring and I later id’d from one of the shots ground level and across the sheet.

        • Missie Baker

          And yet that 3YO exists. I’m also about to try to post for a 3rd time the Site 2 identification line-up.

        • Missie Baker

          Little 3 YO boy was admitted to Boston Children’s Hospital, and was there a few days before being released, evidently his injury was more serious than a simple cut in his scalp. So how did he escape more serious injury as he appears to have been very close to ground zero at site 2? Even his stroller wasn’t damaged. The Adults around him did not fare so well. Look at the position of the stroller relative to the injured.

        • olball coach

          As I said earlier – he can be seen in his stroller – disqus provides a marelous HD picture that shows his face against a blue canvas – the damage to the stroller cannot be seen from the angles we are looking at.

        • Missie Baker

          Are you a power user of Disqus? I cannot even make the images appear…how do I find HD?

        • olball coach

          I have no idea. Remember I am an “old” ballcoach. Disquis required I download something a while back – and now on these blogs If I upload a pik it is in HD and full screen. Lucky, yes – do I know how ? No.

        • olball coach

          This web site I found had the best compilation of injured I could find – Apparently a lot of people did not care to have there injuries reported.
          http://www.brendanhunt.com/uploads/6/3/4/2/6342789/the_boston_bombing_cover-up_transcript.pdf

          Quoting from the PDF:

          As indicated in the above table,
          The Boston Globe and Boston.com are responsible for the initial and in many
          cases only reportage on 37 of the 55 victims, with Boston.com otherwise
          referring readers to either Boston College’s website, eight local or regional
          newspapers’ sites, and in one instance a donation page, for information on the
          remaining 18 injured. The 231 added to the overall City of Boston count of
          April 23 appear to be phantom victims who might have sought care for modest
          injuries in the week following the incident but for which no records have been
          made publicly available. Even Boston.com’s list of 55 has numerous
          informational gaps. For example, eleven of the 55 have no age recorded, an
          especially glaring oversight for medical authorities administering care, while
          five have no injury listed. [111]

        • olball coach
        • Missie Baker

          Admit I wanted to cry when I saw the photo of Jane on her Prosthetic leg. This article had a bit more substantive info that one I read. Thanks for link.

        • olball coach

          Yep me too. I coach girls soccer – its a shame this happened to someone so young. I have experience with something like this in my family – and the outer wound heals – but the inner anger at “life” doesnt unless they maintain many years of inner support and therapy.

        • Missie Baker

          The littlest Richard seems to have a lot of resilience–hoping it carries her through adolescence and all the challenges ahead. Sorry to hear your family suffered a similar tragedy; therapy would seem to be a critical component–senseless loss is a grim burden.

        • Baby Blake

          There seem to be quite a few missing
          from that document. Here are some more, but I don’t have ages for some of them. From bomb#1:

          Karen Engelhardt Rand 52 severe injuries, left leg amputated.
          Lee Ann Yanni – severe leg injury.
          Michele Rose Mahoney – sever leg injuries.
          Mery Daniel 31 severe leg injuries (both) left leg amputated.
          Christian Williams 42 severe leg and hand injuries.
          Caroline Reinsch 39 severe leg injury.
          Amanda North 42 shrapnel injuries.
          Martha Galvis 60 leg injury finger amputated.
          Alvaro Galvis 62 shrapnel injuries to legs and buttocks.
          Ron Brassard – severe leg injury.
          Karen Brassard – shrapnel wounds.
          Krystara Brassard 20 shrapnel wounds dislocated ankle.
          Wayne Gilchrist 58 head injury two broken wrists.
          Frank Kight 62 shrapnel injury to leg.
          Sarah MacKay 20 severe shrapnel injuries blown eardrum.
          Peter DiMartino 28 severe leg injuries.
          Kimberly DiMartino – shrapnel injuries.
          Rebekah Gregory 26 severe leg injury
          Noah Gregory 5 head and leg injuries.

          From bomb#2:

          Adam Davis – shrapnel injuries.
          Anita Erickson 63 facial injury.

          Location unknown:

          Natalie Stewart 26 severe shrapnel injuries right leg amputated.
          Noura al-Ajaji – leg injury
          Abdul Rahman Ali Isa al-Salmi al-Harbi ‘severe wounds’ – no specification.

          Doesn’t really add much in the search for the father and 3 year old son, but it’s a bit more up to date.

        • Missie Baker

          Good post, unfortunately no names that might fit with little 3YO’s papa at Site 2, or the other mysterious sidewalk victim with dark shirt and light slacks, curly dark hair stretched out by Paul Norden and later sitting up by the shrapnel-free tree on the grating.

        • Missie Baker

          Link to Brendan Hunt’s summary of events as reported, discrepancies and all the warts, is quite the document at some 63 pages, including footnotes. I read about 2/3 last night–it’s a lot of material that filtered through the AP into the MSM, esp. CNN and the big three. It’s the official story, in all its permutations. I had a curious sense of dread reliving the events–it’s a train wreck you cannot stop. Mr. Hunt does provide a little commentary, or interpretation, but not in an intrusive way.

        • Baby Blake

          Yes, the left foot. The police officer who carried the child to an ambulance was called Tom Barrett. It has not been publicised at all. It looks like he is missing a foot in the pic, but it could be because of the angle of the photo. Is it possible that Corwin got it wrong and this man’s foot was saved? The family may of chosen to remain silent on the subject. I checked the amputee list and there is no one on it matching the same description/circumstances. Just checking the ‘injured’ list now.

        • Missie Baker

          Mysterious parent/Dad X from Dr. Cowin’s photo is here in blue top and blue jeans, dead center of photo and on the ground, for anyone looking, I know Baby Blake knows this image. He is part of the aftermath of Site 2 explosion, but didn’t come forward as a victim.

        • olball coach

          I am searching every angle to find out who the 3 yr old is – After doing this now for 2 days – I am beginning to think someone is getting ready to cash in – Holding out as long as they think it feasible – as they think the price is the highest – and then we hear the heartbreaking story. Sorry – this is the Time freaking magazine ICONIC photo of the BMB and no one – no one knows who this kid is? Come on! That ain’t real.

          http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/18/boston-police-officer-rescue-small-boy-makes-cover-time-magazine/2pB64ZZwQbyMLHEUCAYffP/story.html

        • Baby Blake

          Ok, Stephen Woolfensen age 38 was visiting the marathon with his 3 year old son Leo to see the mom, Amber Woolfensen run the race. Leo suffered a head injury whilst the father was ‘critically wounded’. Leo was released from hospital on the same day as the unknown 3 year old from the Boston Globe link, whilst his father stayed considerably longer. The family have never spoken publicly since the day of the marathon. They were from Salem, Ms. Forgive me for not posting links – I’ve tried to post this three times now and every time I post a link it wont insert! If you google that information you will find them easily – pictures of the mom but none of the father and son. Having said that, these are the only two who seem to fit the descriptions and circumstances.

        • olball coach
        • Missie Baker

          Photo appears to match 3YO (and the little boy’s curly hair is another indicator of his proximity to the blast) along with the Sr. Woolfenden’s injury reported by Dr. Cowin. Unusual physique for 26.2 long-distance Marathon runner–what do you think? (great research, BB, have you discovered J.Hoffa’s location yet?)

        • olball coach