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More Questions on Bin Laden

It is at times of peak emotion that rationality is most important. With that in mind, we published “Twelve Questions on Bin Laden.” This drew a strong response from readers interested in carefully studying the situation. Here are some more matters to ponder and discuss:

With rumors circulating abroad (and even in the United States) that Osama bin Laden was not really killed on Sunday, why not provide proof and be done with it? President Obama says, he doesn’t want to provoke violence by releasing photos, so why not invite a group of respected journalists and forensic experts to examine the evidence that the White House has—photos, DNA, etc?

The White House declared that bin Laden’s identity was established quickly using a variety of methods, including DNA. But a DNA expert says it takes 16-20 hours to confirm a DNA match. Can the administration provide a detailed accounting that addresses this discrepancy? Given the rush to dispose of his body at sea, the public has a right to understand how sure, really, the authorities were before they threw away the evidence.

This raid was, without question, the single biggest p.r. coup of the Obama presidency. A key part of this success was the initial version given to the public, which contained serious misinformation that presented the occupants of the house as more resistant than they actually were.

We were told that Osama bin Laden’s death was unavoidable because he was “resisting” the invaders in some manner that posed a serious threat. We were also told that the men of the house were cowardly and used a woman as a human shield. Now, when the moment of maximum public attention is past, we learn in dribs and drabs that these characterizations are inaccurate.

How did these inaccuracies get out in the first place? This operation was long-planned, top officials monitored the raid together in real time, and statements to the press—on and off the record—are generally coordinated and cleared in advance, especially with highly sensitive matters of this kind.  Thus, it is not apparent how such serious misstatements of the most central facts of the raid would even be possible. Was there an attempt to spin this in the most favorable way at the moment of maximum attention and make the apologies and corrections when fewer are paying attention?

Ultimately, it is hard to see such profound misstatements by well-informed central figures as anything other than either deliberate or the result of gross incompetence. Which is it—or if an excusable error, how so?

If Osama bin Laden was the sick and feeble individual (with kidney disease and walking with a cane) we have long been told he was, how did he constitute a serious threat to highly-trained, highly-armed individuals in protective gear using night-vision goggles who had apparently already apprehended more able-bodied individuals in the house and managed to bind their hands together?

Wouldn’t Osama bin Laden, alive, be just about the most important intelligence catch ever? Couldn’t he have cleared up the mysteries and speculation that abounds about Al Qaeda, its nature, capabilities, size, activities and plans? Thus, shouldn’t a premium have been placed on bringing him in alive? And a detailed explanation of how this approach failed, if indeed it was attempted? And if a premium were placed on that, couldn’t a physically unthreatening individual have been apprehended through disabling technology commonly used in other raids?

The White House has said that they would have liked to capture bin Laden alive, but outgoing CIA director Leon Panetta has now told NBC that the troops’ orders were to kill him absent the most obvious form of surrender. How do Americans feel about anyone being shot rather than apprehended and given a proper trial? Doesn’t the United States aspire in all of its activities to set an example for other countries to emulate?

Regarding bin Laden’s fate, why did the US not follow the procedure in the cases of others, including Slobodan Milosevic and Radovan Karadzic, accused of complicity in the deaths of tens or hundreds of thousands, and make extraordinary efforts to capture bin Laden alive and then turn him over to the International Court of Justice? Would that not have impressed the world with the United States’ respect for international law (which forbids going into a sovereign country and murdering anyone even if proven guilty) and commitment to a single standard in the global pursuit of justice?

Or is there such a thing as “too risky to live”—in which no chances may be taken with an individual, even where doubts exist?

 

Image Credit:  (http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/05/03/gal_celebrate_bin-laden_3.jpg)


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  • larry payne

    Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, who served in government positions under Reagon, Nixon and Carter, said recently on the Alex Jones show that OBL had died or been killed years ago and was kept on ice . . . yes, literally . . . in order that his death could be staged when needed most.

    • Anonymous

      And how would this fellow be privy to that info? A little skepticism is in order.

      • Barbh0203

        For sure, be skeptical. But check out the interview. Pretty interesting.

      • larry payne

        This can be compared to the government’s 9/11 fabrication– just about any of the alternate views are more believable.

      • http://welcome-to-pottersville2.blogspot.com Suzan

        Russ, can you track down this guy’s bonafides for us? If he’s actually a past associate of Kissinger, Vance, et al. (and he loves Bush Sr.), he’s the break in their dike (and has been for a while).

    • http://welcome-to-pottersville2.blogspot.com Suzan

      I saw this too. He’s livid at what they’re doing now.

  • http://welcome-to-pottersville2.blogspot.com Suzan

    Or this was an unable to be denied PR opportunity which has given Obama a bump in the polls and credibility with the bloodthirsty rightwingnuts whose support he’d like to have in order to peel off a few votes for the next election instead of the wall of outright opposition he’s suffered from previously (cause he does love praise!).

    Or he’s still dead (since the early 2000′s) and whole adventure was just another CIA opp. (Of course, this is the reason that Dumbya feigned losting interest in him early on – dead since December 2001 according to some close sources and reported by all sorts of Pakistani officials.)

    Take your pick. It all looks pretty bad for his “truthiness” quotient now.

    Not that any of his dead-ender, rah-rah supporters will notice until much later.

    • Barbh0203

      I thought about that remark of Bush’s about how he didn’t spend much time thinking about Bin Laden. I think you’re right – he knew he was already dead.

      • Navy Fighter Pilot

        Bush didn’t spend much time thinking — period!

  • Anonymous

    A man, who was on kidney dialysis on 9/10/2001 and who sent letters of concern saying that he did not do it, who lived in caves in the mountains, who the elite military could not track down even the kidney meds, finally, after 10 years, was killed and body dumped in the ocean.
    Yeah Right….
    Either they have another Boogeyman or they that little country in the Med. is pulling the USA strings to attack Iran because Iran refuses to sell its oil in US$$.

    • Az Home

      Morris

      I believe that you are on the right track, the CIA/MIC are setting Americans up for more war and possibly even a false flag attack on a city (Chicago residents are most fearful), the idea maybe to us into a large scale war….having just read James Doulas book JFK and The Unspeakable, I am afraid that we can put nothing past their evilness.

      • http://welcome-to-pottersville2.blogspot.com Suzan

        That was a fantastic book wasn’t it? And not unbelievable at all. I wish Douglass would write about the current fantasy!

      • http://profiles.google.com/cmputrwizard Suze Wins

        James Douglas’ book “JFK and the Unspeakable” is a must read for everyone at this blog. OK, the whole world!

  • Anonymous

    A man, who was on kidney dialysis on 9/10/2001 and who sent letters of concern saying that he did not do it, who lived in caves in the mountains, who the elite military could not track down even the kidney meds, finally, after 10 years, was killed and body dumped in the ocean.
    Yeah Right….
    Either they have another Boogeyman or they that little country in the Med. is pulling the USA strings to attack Iran because Iran refuses to sell its oil in US$$.

  • Big Al

    OBL was killed at Tora Bora, been dead for years! More show by the elites.

    Live Free or Die!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=7727878 Josh Carpenter

    John Stewart has some respectable points of argument on the release of bin Laden’s pics. 1) T argument that the pics are too gruesome isn’t valid in a country that has a television industry whose goal is to make a disgutinglly realistic special effect to show during prime-time; and 2) the argument that it may cause fierce backlash from Radical Muslim Extremists isn’t valid because, hey, we already know they want to kill all of us. Besides, they got the mother load of information from bin Laden’s McMansion.

    Anyone have any more information on the story that said if bin Laden was killed there would be a catastrophic nuke set off in Europe? That’s about all I’ve found out about it, so any additional info would be appreciated. Love the work Russ!

    • KGB

      Looks like a hoax as it’s only ‘fully’ reported by CBS Chicago who write that a number of letters were sent to what really looks like quite random recipients who then contacted the FBI – http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/03/29/threats-claim-nuclear-bombs-hidden-all-over-u-s/

      Re: the photos.. various high ranking Nazis were paraded post execution, post Nuremberg. We also saw Hussein hung in a video so their justification for not confirming seems rather ‘thin’ to say the least.

      • KGB

        Ah, the one you’re referrring to(?) was a document released as part of a recent WikiLeaks find… (which I’m having trouble source tracking).

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=7727878 Josh Carpenter

          @3cdb77ea5df45656b67a5ffa0f32b3ec:disqus Yes, you are correct. Along with the Wikileaks info, I spent a little time on it tonight and found that in an interview in Nov of 2001, bin Laden and al-Zawahiri said that they had nukes from Russia. Russia has always had problems accounting for their nukes. In 1997 there were claims that 100 “suitcase-sized” nukes were missing and in the article referenced above, al-Zawahiri said there were 30 missing nukes, implying they have some or all of them. Regardless, whatever happens, all roads thus far have pointed toward the simple fact that al-Qaeda would most likely have a dirty bomb, which would do more psychological damage than physical damage – not to take away from the horrific thought of the physical damage it could cause…I’m sure I’ll catch wind of something else. Let me know if you need the links to the sources, be happy to share.

  • Anonymous

    One issue with this Operation that I have a problem with, that I have not seen discussed in detail is this: how did they just fly in and out of Pakistan in the helicopters without some interception of the Pakistani military.

    So, we are told they flew in under Pakistani radar, had a 40 minute fire fight, collected a bunch of computer hardware, and then flew out, all next to the Pakistani equivalent of West Point? I find it extremely hard to believe the Pakistani’s did not, at least during the fire fight; figure out what was going on.

    The Pakistani’s have a very capable military, and I don’t see how the US could have pulled this off without some unintended escalation with Pakistani military that night. Firing missiles from drones in Pakistani airspace is one thing; conduct a raid such as this is entirely different.

    This is just another hole in a rather questionable story to me. I am a skeptic that Bin Laden was still alive. He was in poor health 10 years ago with failing kidneys. PM Bhutto stated very clearly in her interview with Jack Frost that Bin Laden was dead. Be skeptical, very skeptical.

    • Anonymous

      agreed on the Paki military–something certainly does not add up. Or, rather, almost nothing adds up. We’ll try and look more at some of these issues–Russ

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  • Relston1313

    And does the president really sit around the group he was sitting around with while every important military operation is taking place? Or was this a special occasion since he already knew what the outcome would be, since many believe Osama was eliminated already long ago? It appeared to be such a phony gathering, waiting on a very big lie to be thrown down on us, perhaps well timed to give us plenty of opportunity to wave our flag for awhile with a little more pride as we are about to really be taken advantage of perhaps as never before by the world of Big Oil control?

  • Ishtarenana

    To azbadger

    Moreover that was a military compound where Pak elite troops are trained by USA. Thus the Pak Government was complicit . Perhaps that was a kind of drill that went real. The house apparently was occupied by women, children and 3 young men who were asleep at night (their bodies being on or near beds) . Or these men were killed on some other time and place and their photos just released.

    I mean, clearly, there was no Bin Laden on the scene. He died early in 2001. What Obama and his men were watching , was some movements of the SEALS, just like that video of “Saving private Jesseca” You may remember that we saw nothing in that video but some troops descending and kicking doors. We had not seen the actual “saving of Jesseca”.

    • http://profiles.google.com/cmputrwizard Suze Wins

      Either late in 2001 or in 2002, you mean. There is physical evidence that he was undergoing dialysis at an American hospital site in the mideast on September 10, 2001. The US Government (which facilitated his treatment) released this evidence right after September 11 to show how on the money it was as to his whereabouts then.

      S

  • http://twitter.com/MoralOutrage1 Moral Outrage

    Pepe Escobar, of The Asian Times Online, told Peter B. Collins in an interview on Wednesday 5/4/11 that no bullet holes had been found inside the compound, only that bloodied area on a bed.

  • Az Home

    I worry about what the CIA/MIC is setting up by this PR stunt, I fear it is more than just to give Obama at the polls, I have read and heard from other sources that a flase flag may be in the planning stage in large mid-west city

  • Anonymous

    Where is the proof that Jesus died on the cross and arose from the dead after three days? All the stories of Jesus were written some years after he supposedly walked the earth.
    By the way, the so called ‘proof’, GWB had regarding WMD’s was false, his lies cost milions of lives. You know what, that should upset people more than a black man’s birth certificate or the supposed killing of a supposed killer.
    We as a country need to focus on the real issues, like the borrowing of money from China to pay for war. I don’t remember ever borrowing money from China to pay for social issues!
    Regards,

  • http://www.facebook.com/tonywicher Anthony Enos Wicher

    As one who has long been convinced by abundant evidence that the World Trade Center was demolished with explosives (nanothermite), and that the Obama administration has continued the Bush administration cover-up, I have to believe that this bin Laden killing is a staged psy-op. This is the start of Obama’s 2012 presidential campaign, to boost his sagging poll numbers like 9/11 boosted Bush’s. Obama is pure CIA, no better than Bush. What’s even worse is that even in the highly unlikely event that they had the real OBL, the way they shot an unarmed man and dumped his body in the ocean is so much like a gangland hit, you wonder they didn’t put on a pair of cement overshoes before they deepsixed him. This country is being run by gangsters, drug lords and warlords.

  • Anonymous

    Great view that not seen anywhere else. Osama had to be killed because he knew too much dirt on certain people in our government.

    We have all been betrayed by our own government. What happen to “Open Government” that we once had?

    Everything now is classified so that we can’t see what our ‘bureaucrats’ are doing to our wonderful country.

  • Mark Humphrey

    Over the decades, I’ve learned that one must never assume that official statements are truthful and sincere.

    The lying didn’t start with Lyndon Johnson, the George Bush’s, or Barrack Obama. Dishonesty, manipulation and even treachery are essential to sustaining Big Government. Lies and treachery are institutionally characteristic, because the Big State is inherently destructive. It functions by robbing (and sometimes, by murdering) Peter to pay Paul.

    In this Golden Age of Instant Information, via the World Wide Web, no one can claim ignorance as an excuse. People who uncritically buy the official line about almost anything are self-deceived Dupes who wouldn’t have it any other way. We have been lied to viciously and purposefully about 9/11, Pearl Harbor, the JFK assassination, the events leading up to and through the Second World War, the War between the States, facts concerning global warming (sorry, Climate Change!), and a host of other important subjects.

    Psychologists like to lecture about abusive relationships, which they describe as a subconscious “dance” between the abuser and the abused or the addict and the enabler. A similar theme explains the strange phenomena of people who refuse to look at good evidence about treachery in high places. The High and Mighty pretend to tell us the truth; their insecure and dependent subjects pretend to believe them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Stead/100001531819891 David Stead

    Sadly but without a doubt obviously, there simply is no good reason to believe anything, and I mean anything at all, that comes from the mouth of a government or corporate speaker whether it is a press secretary or the president himself. If you don’t or can’t believe they’re lying, you haven’t been paying attention.

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  • Swharton19

    I am so sickened by the corruption, lies, manipulation, deceipt and on and on that we, the world (actully), but especially us Americans who believed how great this country, how we help the world, we were the Home of the Free…blah, blah, blah.  I was awakened about 6 yrs ago when a friend had me watch ‘zeitgeist’-the movie.  I was sick, felt like a pawn, betrayed etc and from that point have searched a LOT, have quite a collection of DVD’s on the various webs that are being weaved. 
    But this stunt about Bin Laden’s ‘most recent’ death is laughtable!  I would have thought that this compound Bin Laden was taking refuge in would have had their own surveillance, night-vision cameras to detect any form of possible attack…wouldn’t they have heard those helicopters?  Just seems wierd to me that the whole place was asleep and no one was guarding the place…kinda like us on 9/11.  The most secure country in the world all went to hell in a handbasket that morning…errors my ass.   Also, it seems to me that with Bin Ladens Family would have gone crazy over the US decision to bury him at sea without any of them confirming it was indeed him.  The photo evidence should have been released for the 9/11 victims families to have some feeling of justice, since the Seals hadn’t, apparently, been trained much on the capture and keepin their captures alive part of their training??? And, I certainly didn’t realize DNA results could be processed so fast.  Why does it take weeks to get DNA reports for rape victims…actually for everybody else.? ?

    I’d like to do some serious cleaning of every tentacle of every branch of Government, Corpetc, all the way down the line…pluck em’ all out with a huge vacuum cleaner, take em’ all to area 51 and put em’ in their very own spacescraft, send them one their way.  Let them destroy each other and leave us alone!

    Sorry, I didn’t mean to ramble on…

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  • H.P. Loathecraft

    I understand new DNA testing is capable of two hour results as seen here:

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/12/innovative_dna_test_developed.html

    and here:

    http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110720/full/475278a.html

    and here:

    http://www.forensicdnacenter.com/forensic-blog/?p=91

    I don’t accept the government’s story by any means but the DNA angle ain’t worth much, IMO.

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  • John D Hansen Jr

    Your suggestion that the U.S. could have turned Bin Laden over to the International Court of Justice strikes me as a great irony. When President Bush demanded that the Taliban turn over Osama Bin Laden for trial in the United States, the Taliban offered to turn Bin Laden over for trial in a third country. (Presumably this offer would have permitted a trial before the International Court of Justice.) President Bush rejected this offer as not good enough and invaded Afghanistan.

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  • TrustTheGov’t

    This story makes about as much sense and is the perfect bookend to the “Official Fairy Tale” of how 9/11 happened. The investigation and all crucial evidence was controlled, hidden, confiscated and minimized to the American People, same as this cockamamie story of “the courageous night raid” that finally did away with Bin Laden, the eminently exploitable “Boogie Man” who finally outlived his (and his various video ‘doubles’) usefulness.

    Yeah, sooo courageous. They gun down an old sick man on dialysis who walks with a cane when they could have captured him as they did with other people in that house.

    This whole story is an insult to my intelligence, but worse than that, it furthers the contempt of Americans in the eyes of the entire world….that we would sit by and stand for the sale of this pack of blatant lies as what really happened.

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